Finance committee  Each of those is different. For the elderly, for certain, it was one of the big successes of the Canadian story to have it come down from such high levels in the 1970s. In the last few years—and all of the data supports this—it's been creeping up a little. But it still is one of

Finance committee  Working-age is increasing, and it has been increasing over the last, say, 20 years. For children, it has been increasing as well.

Finance committee  Correct. We're concerned also with the squeezing of the middle class. If you look at the working-age poverty rate and you see we have a large portion of people of working age with inadequate education levels, that's a problem.

Finance committee  If you look at the impact of the tax and transfer system over the last few decades, you find that it has been reducing inequality. It has been less effective since the early-1990s. These data have been borne out by our studies and by major studies around the world. You're right t

Finance committee  Correct.

Finance committee  The world is changing, and globalization, and all of these things are changing so quickly that in fact you probably have to move faster on a lot of these programs. If you look at globalization and what's happened to those working class people, the programs you're putting in place

Finance committee  What are the two numbers that you're referring to? We use data from the OECD. What it does is it takes all of the data from all the different countries and makes sure that it's comparable.

Finance committee  Right.

Finance committee  The LICO is a different measure. What the OECD uses is a relative measure, so it's a certain proportion that are below a certain median income. You can get two different results from it.