Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Yes, that's very hard for me to say, because my contacts are with the restricted part of Egyptian society, essentially, the middle class or intellectuals, generally in Cairo. I think there is a generational change that I can see in Egyptian society, but it has less to do with political ideology and less to do even with gender relations and more to do with sort of social comportment and behaviour.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Thank you very much for having me.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Yes, I think those for the Salafis would be stronger and less diplomatically worded.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Specifically on gender relations, I would say there would be a spectrum. There is a spectrum. It is fundamentally a socially conservative society in ways that we would understand that to be socially conservative. It is one that understands most people would see men and women as having fundamentally different roles in the society.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I think that's an absolutely critical issue. When you go back to 2011 and how is it that Egyptians understood and what it was that they did in 2011, they often talk about it as a revolution of the youth, and the youth who were.... In a sense, there was a generational change in Egypt.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Yes. I don't know what the exact figures are in Egypt, but I suspect you're dealing with a very similar kind of situation.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  As an extremely guarded attitude towards international human rights instruments that deal with very specific issues, I think, and I would say most particularly gender. The most relevant political party, the Freedom and Justice Party, for instance, specifically cited in its campaign platform the convention on economic discrimination against women as a document that it was uncomfortable with.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Basically yes, there is informal segregation in terms of housing and neighbourhoods, which would mean that Christians would tend to be concentrated in specific areas, and there would be large areas that would not have Christians. There is also the Al-Azhar system which is alongside.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Not as far as I know. I don't think, first, that the segregation is quite as severe. I did live in Chicago in the 1970s and the segregation there was absolutely extreme. You could go block by block. I don't think the informal segregation in Egypt is nearly that strong, nor are there the same socio-economic differences laid on top, nor is it always obvious when you see somebody on the street that somebody is Muslim or Christian.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I don't think there is a judicial vacuum in the fundamental sense. There are courts that are active, that are trusted throughout the country. In fact, the judiciary is probably one of the country's most respected institutions. What has happened over the past two years in Egyptian life, I think, is a breakdown in, I would say, informal social control.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  As before? Yes. There has been virtually no change in the judiciary. It's a very, very strong institution. When the 2012 constitution was written, it changed the composition of the constitutional court, but that was about it. If anything, the judiciary has gained some autonomy, I think, since 2011.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I'd say it's shaky. There is a sound legal structure there. Egypt has a judicial system which at this point is a century and a half old. It is very well established within Egyptian society. Levels of litigation are extremely high. Egyptians go to courts very easily. The basic fundamental structures there are sound.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  No, I don't think they are trying to walk away from their responsibilities, but I don't think it's their priority right now. The priority right now is, I think, to establish a sound political system and economy. The sorts of pressing human rights issues are ones that I think they are willing to postpone, and that is a matter of concern for me.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I think various countries will have to get used to dealing with Egypt as a more democratic society. For that reason, I think the question is a very good one. When you deal with an authoritarian regime, you're used to dealing with generally the office of the head of state. You don't have to worry about the rest of the state apparatus, the rest of the political opposition, and so on and so forth.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  In terms of where their political instincts are in most of these areas, I would be more in favour of them than many of their critics are. I think fundamentally they want to build a democratic Egypt, one in which there is civilian control of these institutions. They have some sense of where they want to lead the economy and the sense that the state simply needs to do a better job of providing for basic needs of Egyptian citizens and the sense that there needs to be much more emphasis on job creation and so on.