Canadian Heritage committee  Again, just to clarify my point, a lot of times Toronto has determined that some regional production is Hamilton.

Canadian Heritage committee  I think it's Hamilton, isn't it, in Toronto?

Canadian Heritage committee  Yes, I agree. One of the things we have to do is not just look at the CBC in isolation. It's the whole of television in Canada. We really have to look at the Canadian Television Fund. You have to remember that with the Canadian Television Fund envelope, CBC is allotted 37% of that amount.

Canadian Heritage committee  Oh, it's impossible without CBC.

Canadian Heritage committee  No, absolutely not. The other thing that's important to mention is that if you look at Above and Beyond--I'll take that as an example--it was a miniseries. The intent of Above and Beyond down the road is to be a series, and that's huge, because every jurisdiction that has a mandate to develop the film industry knows that a TV series is the biggest thing for developing your crew, actors; everyone is working on a long-term period, and that's the way to give sustainability to your industry.

Canadian Heritage committee  The immediate results of the performance envelope really showed that all projects were out of Toronto, essentially, in English Canada. So the impact was immediate. The bigger issue with Paul developing the series for Above and Beyond was not so much the performance envelope, it was CBC's shift in its mandate or its focus.

Canadian Heritage committee  Yes.

Canadian Heritage committee  I'm going to make a few comments, and then perhaps John could respond. John was actually one of the writers on Above and Beyond.

Canadian Heritage committee  That's okay. It was a difficult process. It's a long, drawn-out time to get something into production. I think it was three, almost four years, in development. We had a champion at CBC. There was an individual in CBC who thought very highly of the project. He liked the story and fought for it all the way.

Canadian Heritage committee  It was an interprovincial co-production with Newfoundland and Quebec, and an international co-production with Ireland.

Canadian Heritage committee  As we said, when the corporation opened in 1997, we clearly realized that if we have to wait for service production we're not going to have a film industry in this province and we're not going to be able to tell our stories. That was quite clear. We've really focused on that. Because Random Passage was a period piece with a high production value, we were very fortunate that RTÉ, which is the CBC equivalent in Ireland, had the same feel for the story.

Canadian Heritage committee  Yes, there's no question that with the change in the dollar.... In the larger production service centres such as Vancouver and Toronto in English Canada, producers who otherwise worked in that industry more as service producers for L.A. productions have now realized that they have to go after some of the more indigenous Canadian productions.

Canadian Heritage committee  Absolutely. It is much cheaper to produce. The development side is not the same, and developing a script is quite easy. The production is not as costly, there's no question.

Canadian Heritage committee  I think you're speaking to the converted. Yes, there's no question, and that's their mandate. That's what a public broadcaster is. Again, it's not just because there are Newfoundland stories; they have to be Newfoundland stories that want to be heard, not only by Newfoundlanders but by the rest of Canada and internationally.

Canadian Heritage committee  That's a loaded question. No, I think that under the current system, certainly in the English CBC side there is a preference given to Toronto producers in getting their productions licensed. It's clear now. I mentioned earlier the performance envelopes with the CTF. They've done that in the development component as well.