Foreign Affairs committee  I think that's right. Part of the issue is effective direct control not only on the choice of munitions but over the operation, as I understand it.

Foreign Affairs committee  I suppose that could be one way to do it. I'd also recommend to you page 7 of the Mines Action Canada written submission, where it draws upon the implementing legislation for the Ottawa treaty. That's one option. In the Harvard submission on page 10, there is some suggested language as well that's an alternative.

Foreign Affairs committee  That can certainly inform whatever else was in the legislation, certainly.

Foreign Affairs committee  To echo the Prime Minister, I would just read briefly from our commentary on this very point: What Article 21 should allow in these situations, therefore, is for a State Party and the members of its armed forces to call in a strike delivered by a State not party in an international operation even if there is no guarantee that cluster munitions will not be used.

Foreign Affairs committee  I think the consequence would be that it would not allow Canada to play the very important role of trying to encourage my country not to use cluster munitions. I think it would be setting a bad example for implementing legislation where that's required in other countries who are party to the treaty.

Foreign Affairs committee  I haven't looked at Resolution 1497, frankly, probably since 2003, so I would add that caveat. What clause 11 does is it frankly allows—it really comes close and I think others would say it goes to allowing—Canadian Armed Forces to violate the letter and spirit of the treaty, which says don't use cluster munitions.

Foreign Affairs committee  Yes, I would just read a phrase from paragraph 2 of article 21 that says: Each State Party shall...make its best efforts to discourage States not party to this Convention from using cluster munitions. All of the exceptions that have been written into clause 11 of the bill don't strike me as the best efforts to discourage states from using cluster munitions.

Foreign Affairs committee  Thank you very much for the opportunity to testify today. My name is Virgil Wiebe. I'm a professor at the University of St. Thomas School of Law here in Minneapolis. I appear in my personal capacity. As a Mennonite, I’ve been blessed to walk in the steps of people who have been raising their voices about cluster munitions since the 1960s and 1970s.