Procedure and House Affairs committee  I don't see this decision being made by a party official or a party bureaucrat. I see it being made by the executive of the party, the elected people who run the party, so that a true leadership race takes place.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  You don't want 25 candidates. We all agree with that.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  This is part of what I was saying. The permissible amount of the loans would be even for all the candidates that are accepted as candidates.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  You would also have to cross the other hurdles that are put your way by the party to be a candidate. Either it's money or a form of public support, so you would have to cross that. We already have these unwritten hurdles. Some of them become written, but they're unwritten in the way we run the system now.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I did not take that phenomenon into consideration in my proposal. I believe the parties have to examine their conscience regarding the way women are treated in the nomination system. I am convinced of that. With the royal commission, there was an attempt to interfere legally in the entire process, but Parliament and Canadians said they did not want that included in the act.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Yes. You don't want indirect loans.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I don't know if the allusion was being made to a debt, really, a long-term credit. Someone has provided you with service is what he was saying....

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Then it becomes a debt after six months. In my view, the whole issue should be dealt with as a debt. He said that he was recommending looking at the debts as well, at the same time, which I don't think is covered in Bill C-21 at this time. With respect to debts, it's money owed for services rendered and not paid for.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  If it is planned, the statute allows that to be referred to the commissioner. If that is the thing, then that is fraud and it is against the law, against the Canada Elections Act, and you then recommend prosecution as commissioner and prosecute the person.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  It may well have. By limiting it to financial institutions as the only institutions that can borrow, it introduces a significant “brake” in the system, as opposed to “break”. It is significant. I was attempting to shut down after a reasonable period of time—three years—the whole issue of loans that are not repaid, so that the next election would be fought with a clean slate, so that you're not into....

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Yes.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Sir, I live that regime, and it is hell.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  As Chief Electoral Officer, on what do you base your judgment about extending or not extending? Yet I had to do it. You know, you give the benefit of the doubt to people, to people in this room. You must give the benefit of the doubt on these issues, unless you find something that was done criminally and is against the statute.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I liked the Chief Electoral Officer's recommendation on seed costs of approximately $4,000. However, the committee may well prefer that the amount be $5,000 or $3,500. The committee could propose another amount, since its members know better what is necessary for a candidate to undertake an election campaign.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Obviously, if the EDA is providing a guarantee, there will be a form of pressure applied on the candidate to pick up the money and get the contributions in accordance with the maximum amount that can be contributed. This is the essence of the game, and how I would view it. There would be that aspect.