Veterans Affairs committee  It's nothing coordinated. It happens by word of mouth and by experience. I'll give you a good example of the sequence, for instance. Vets Canada is an association that is contracted with Veterans Affairs and is actually responsible for homelessness for veterans. They are contacted when a homeless veteran is found.

Veterans Affairs committee  I believe that's happening right now. The departments are working together, even with the central agencies, to try to make it simpler and reduce complexity in the access to programs, for instance by consolidating benefits. As I said before, if a person is able to generate a certain percentage of the revenue that they could generate while they were serving, then the payment financially is the difference between that and what they can generate themselves.

Veterans Affairs committee  That's a good question. Holistically, the new Veterans Charter provides three types of payment. The first, as you say, is the lump sum award payment, which is strictly for pain and suffering. It has nothing to do with replacing income or anything like that. It's strictly for pain and suffering.

Veterans Affairs committee  That would be one of the ideal approaches. In fact, I'll go back to one of the questions before. One thing they do in Australia, for instance, is that the veterans affairs side gets in contact with the recruits. As soon as they are enrolled in the forces, they are clients of veterans affairs, and veterans affairs has access to their records.

Veterans Affairs committee  What we need to look at is harmonization, and maybe look at a sequential process. If we merge the two completely, we'll be facing the risk of having money that is supposed to go to operations taken away from the veterans' side to support our veterans and their families. The Canadian Forces are an operational unit.

Veterans Affairs committee  I would think, first of all, that the transition is the most important element, because people serve willingly. They have unlimited liability, but the transition from one culture to another is quite important. I think the start would be to look at a transition that is positive for the member, so that there's hope in going forward to another life.

Veterans Affairs committee  My starting point would be something equivalent to what you would have made if you had stayed in the forces uninjured. In other words, people have a career plan. They know when they are going to be promoted. They have a superannuation plan that they can plan retirement with, and that sort of thing.

Veterans Affairs committee  Thank you. That's a very good comment. I would say that culture is certainly where to start. On the National Defence side, obviously, if there is a resistance to sharing information, because some secret information may be contained within personal files and that sort of thing....

Veterans Affairs committee  That's quite correct. It's a good statement.

Veterans Affairs committee  Yes. Thank you very much. It's obvious in our report and so on that we have done comparative studies in the past with other jurisdictions as well. Personally, after having been almost around the world to talk to other veterans' organizations, I still believe we have one of the best systems around.

Veterans Affairs committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good morning. Good morning, committee members as well. Thank you for inviting me to appear before you again as you come towards the end of your comparative study of services to veterans in other jurisdictions. As I said, on May 1, as you began your hearings, I think it is important to look at what other countries are doing to support their veterans in order for Canada to keep up with best practices.

Veterans Affairs committee  I can't speak for the minister, but the idea of reducing complexity is certainly foremost in both the department and the minister's office.

Veterans Affairs committee  Thank you. That's a good point. The Canadian solution is to reduce the duplicity and the complexity of it, because there are too many departments involved in it right now. When we talk about seamless transition, it's not seamless right now; it's very confusing. That's why the government needs to introduce a governance process so that one department is responsible for the transition from the military career to a civilian new normal, not just a civilian job but a new normal—stability in finance, stability in health care, all expenses reimbursed, that sort of thing.

Veterans Affairs committee  That's a good question. I already mentioned one, the vocational rehabilitation program. It's very confusing. You talk about the monetary cost, but what about the frustration cost? People get process fatigue and then just say, “That's it. I'm not going to bother. It's not worth it.”

Veterans Affairs committee  I'm glad you brought up that point because this is an issue of unfairness that exists right now with the new Veterans Charter. In the past under the old pension plan or the pension disability, what used to happen then was that when you applied for benefits, and it took maybe nine weeks to get your benefits in place, any expenses you incurred during that time would be paid.