Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I should just clarify that all of these children are the same age, 19 years old, since the events took place between April and July 1994. They don't range in age from 15 to 19; they are all 19 years old, give or take a month or two, but no more. These children are left to their own devices.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you asking what could be done to help these children rebuild their lives?

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Yes, entirely.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Here, in Canada, no one is forcing us to live with people who don't have empathy for what we and others went through. In Rwanda, however, the government is pressuring survivors to forgive those who murdered their loved ones. Forgiveness can't be ordered. It comes from a personal place.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  The notions of solidarity with survivors of the Tutsi genocide and justice underlie our association's statutes. The three keywords that describe our mission our memory, justice and solidarity. On the solidarity front, unfortunately, we've only been able to raise a small amount of money to help survivors of the Tutsi genocide living here, even those here right now, who are struggling with psychological issues and suddenly have breakdowns and end up on the street.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  That is an excellent question. The reconciliation between Hutus and Tutsis would appear to be going well in Rwanda, according to the publications put out by various institutions. We see pictures of a widow strolling hand-in-hand with the man who killed her husband along with statements to the effect that the reconciliation is going strong.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Yes. Thank you, Mr. Cotler. I agree with what you said about rape being used as an act of war. I just answered madam's question on that. I stressed the fact that rape could sometimes be used as an act of war, as is the case today and as was previously the case in the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I did not quite understand the question. Was it about the numbers?

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I see. That is a good question. In my presentation I talked a little about the fact that the rapes committed during the Tutsi genocide were crimes of envy. Let me explain what I mean by that. Hutus and Tutsis had lived in the same villages forever in Rwanda, but there had not really been any intermarriages, as one might have thought, among these populations that lived side by side.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Fine.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Thank you very much. That is a good suggestion. I am myself outraged by the fact that the government is rejecting these children and does not consider them to be survivors of the genocide. They were born after the genocide, of course, but their mothers are survivors. They should consequently be considered as survivors of the genocide and not be rejected by the state.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Not at all. There are also Hutus who came here as refugees

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Very well. The exact number of survivors is not known because most of them are not a part of our organizations. There is the Humura association here in Ottawa, and the Page-Rwanda association in Montreal. Those are the two main organizations. Where there are a lot of survivors of the Tutsi genocide, there are associations like the one in Quebec, but they do not have official names as such.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I do not know any. In fact, we don't know how many women were raped, but I think it is fair to say that almost all Tutsi women who were in Rwanda during the genocide were raped. Rape was the general rule and non-rape was the exception. So as far as I know there are no children born of those rapes who came here to Canada.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  No, not at all. We cannot choose the refugees because they come on their own. These young people are not here because they are still young. The eldest among them are barely 19; they are not yet 20.