Subcommittee on a Code of Conduct for Members committee  Of course. I agree with the advice that Professor Heard just gave, including the last point that you certainly need to have a limited number of initial points of contact in order to be able to keep a record of all complaints in relation to a particular individual. It may be that in many cases the issue can be resolved through mediation completely confidentially and in a way that results in an apology or some limited measure of discipline.

Subcommittee on a Code of Conduct for Members committee  I expect that the definition was chosen specifically because it captured all the employer-employee relationships between MPs and their employees that were likely to give rise to potential harassment claims.

Subcommittee on a Code of Conduct for Members committee  I agree with the analysis that you could have a multi-levelled approach that offers different levels of confidentiality depending on the severity of the sanction, but in all cases attempts to preserve the confidentiality of the complainant.

Subcommittee on a Code of Conduct for Members committee  It was the definition in the policy that applies to members as employers. It is quite broad already so it includes locations in situations including business travel, conferences, and work-related social gatherings where House of Commons-related activities are performed and where inappropriate behaviour or comments might reasonably be perceived to have a subsequent impact on work relationships, environment, or performance.

Subcommittee on a Code of Conduct for Members committee  In my view, I think that would be possible, to have a procedure for discipline that is less serious, that is recommended solely by the outside investigator who is responsible for this process or the appeal panel, if there is an appeal, if you were to adopt a process that's similar to the policy that applies to members as employers.

Subcommittee on a Code of Conduct for Members committee  As I mentioned in my opening statement, while the usual process would be that discipline would be by the House or by a committee of the House, you could choose to set up a process under which the ultimate decision on discipline is made by an external body, and that is automatically applied either by the whip or by the clerk.

Subcommittee on a Code of Conduct for Members committee  I don't know that there are. Certainly there are to the extent that the House has already set up certain independent bodies like the ethics commissioner. Those are tasks that in the past were done completely by the House. But with the ethics commissioner, for example, you end up with a recommendation that the House ultimately rules on, so while a certain degree of responsibility has been delegated, the ultimate decision remains with the House.

Subcommittee on a Code of Conduct for Members committee  Just briefly, in the code that applies to members as employers there is a definition of workplace that includes all offices or other premises where the business of the House is being conducted. But it also extends to locations and situations including business travel, conferences, and work-related social gatherings where House of Commons-related activities are performed, and where inappropriate behaviour or comments might reasonably be perceived to have a subsequent impact on work relationships, environment, or performance.

Subcommittee on a Code of Conduct for Members committee  That's correct. That was the suggestion I was making, which is open to you if you should choose to adopt that kind of process.

Subcommittee on a Code of Conduct for Members committee  I agree. It's extremely important that free speech within the House be preserved. That is clearly essential to proper functioning of the House. At the same time, if you had quite a narrow definition that only prohibits offensive speech that is demeaning a member on the basis of their sex or race or another prohibited ground, I think as long as the definition were clear enough, that this would only prohibit the kind of speech that would never in any way advance a discussion even of difficult topics, because it would be a slur or something of that type.

Subcommittee on a Code of Conduct for Members committee  I grew up on Prince Edward Island and I remember Joe Ghiz, who was our premier. He was the first premier of non-European descent. He was the subject of a racist slur in the legislative assembly. Something I thought was interesting about that was that there was some discussion about hierarchy.

Subcommittee on a Code of Conduct for Members committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. I should start with a bit of a disclaimer. I believe I was asked here today because I have represented the House of Commons as your counsel in a number of cases that raise parliamentary privilege issues. However, I don't currently have a solicitor-client relationship with the subcommittee.