Citizenship and Immigration committee  I agree with the caveat that as counsel, of course our training is that we should vigorously defend our client, including making a complaint if it's justified, and not be afraid to go in front of that member again, but to the degree that it's possible, I think it's not very optim

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Yes. With any kind of training, you have to see results. I mean, that's just a general principle, not just with the board. I would expect, if I send my staff for training, to see the results of it.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Yes. I agree 100%.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I don't know the answer to that. Do you know, Mr. Boulakia?

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I would say a better training and appointment process.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I agree 100%.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I agree with my friend.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I defer to my friend on that.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  The claimants deserve to know what happened. The claimants deserve a resolution to their complaint. If they've been treated badly, they should get a response to that, a substantive response.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I can say that it has improved a great deal compared to where it used to be. There are still some problems. You still quite regularly get board members in hearings who don't know basic case law from the Federal Court outlining refugee 101 principles. You also sometimes get boar

Citizenship and Immigration committee  It could be, yes. I've met lawyers who I wouldn't want to put in front of a court or a client, but they're great to do the paperwork.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Right. It's not sufficient the way it is now.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  The entry exam should include substantive law in it. It should have basic international human rights law and refugee law as a part of it. They should have ongoing training. The problem is that we know they have some training, but it's very opaque. The public doesn't really know

Citizenship and Immigration committee  No, I don't think a law degree should be mandatory for any of the divisions. I think it's helpful.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Right. I don't think at the entry level, when they're first sitting the exam, that there needs to be necessarily.... I didn't say “a substantial amount” of law; I said “substantive” law, meaning something that's topical to the refugee area.