Human Resources committee  It could be home nursing or any number of things that had been.... I think it really focuses on who your partners are and how you build those partnerships and those intermediaries. Just to give one concrete example, there is a group I'm working with called New Market Funds, which is run by a guy who came out of Bay Street, was very successful, and wants to move into this impact investing.

Human Resources committee  —and that you will have private sector actors who will pick the low-hanging fruit.

Human Resources committee  The suspicion around social impact bonds sometimes is that it's an offloading strategy—

Human Resources committee  I have a little less patience, given where the social finance sector is. That's not to say that there aren't good proposals around social impact bonds, but they're not really bonds. The framework of thinking about them in the way of bonds is, I think, confusing. While they may scale one operation, how translatable they are to another is unclear to me.

Human Resources committee  I'll speak to that. Just to give you some specific examples, Corporate Knights was doing an expansion in Toronto. They are a group that works around corporate accountability and helping develop a more dynamic culture of corporations working to bring change. They needed some equity for an expansion and we supported them.

Human Resources committee  Yes. Accountability should be just as it is in the private market. In other words, I should lose my job if I lose money, and the market should gravitate away from people who take excessive risk and don't perform.

Human Resources committee  Yes. Again, I don't want to sound like too much of a private market guy because that's not my background, but it works in the same way that a private market, when it's working well, works.

Human Resources committee  There's good transparency. If people don't get their money back, they say, “Why did you hire that person? Why did this happen? This business failed.” Again, there are repercussions that allow the capital to gravitate where it can be more effective.

Human Resources committee  Risk can be contained by good money management. In other words, it is defined by the terms under which the capital enters the market. You heard Adam talking about some that are prepared to take a below-market return. In a sense that's a certain quantification. You need to match the capital to the risk that is appropriate for it.

Human Resources committee  Absolutely. There are a number of start-up entities that do not have a proven business plan. They have not entered into operations that demonstrated the plan, and it was not so obvious a proposal that it would make sense, so we say no. Specifically it would be around a rooftop greenhouse proposal in an urban market where the actual marketing and purchasing plan was not clear enough.

Human Resources committee  I hope that was helpful.

Human Resources committee  Perhaps I could for just a second. I'd like to say this is part of a community practice that I would argue.... I was eavesdropping, but you talk about studying this and studying that. I am concerned sometimes that there are too many people trying to solve the same problem in different ways, and sometimes it relates to building too diffuse a capacity and spreading the butter too thin.

Human Resources committee  Sure. Hi. I'm very pleased to be back—or pleased to be here in person. Last time I appeared before the committee, I think it was a time of year I wouldn't have wanted to be here, but on a day like today it's lovely. Thank you for having me. To be clear, I'm the vice-president of community investment at Vancity.