Justice committee  My experience has primarily been in relation to 7 and 15. Our position is that there has to be enhanced flexibility but that we really need to keep in mind the focused mandate that the program had on issues of disadvantage because, as soon as it gets too broad, then I think the concerns that have been expressed in previous discussions about how you manage it when you're getting too many applications, how you really select....

Justice committee  There are a number of mechanisms that can be used. There's the regional mechanism with the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights that has sometimes been used. There are communications procedures available through special procedures, which is the special rapporteur on adequate housing, who happens to be a Canadian, Lailani Farha, at this point in time.

Justice committee  I couldn't agree with you more. The Gosselin case left the issue open. We've only had two statements from the Supreme Court of Canada about whether section 7 includes social and economic rights. First was in Irwin Toy, where they left the issue open, and then in Gosselin; eight of the nine judges went out of their way to say they were leaving this open in another case.

Justice committee  It's an important point. Clearly it's not going to be enough money, but on the other hand if we have a limited pot, I think the most important principle is to ensure that we're able to be involved in the most important cases and to do the best job that we can in those. From the standpoint of poverty issues, if the most critical case around the interpretation of section 7 happens to end up, as it may very well end up, being a provincial challenge or a territorial challenge, it's so critical that we be able to participate in that case.

Justice committee  I'm afraid I'm going to be a bit like the previous panel and say that I don't have the magic bullet, but I think legislative enactment of some sort would at least make it seem to be more permanent. As the previous panel pointed out, I think once we have it restored, we'll do our best to make sure that no one will ever want to part with it again.

Justice committee  The program has been supportive of the use of international human rights to interpret section 15 of the charter, so that I think would continue to be the case. I'm now involved in a case having to do with the denial of access to the interim federal health benefit to a person who was applying for humanitarian and compassionate consideration and was ineligible.

Justice committee  Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, everyone, for inviting me to participate in this very important and energizing discussion. I was involved with the court challenges program right from its inception, and I have worked on a number of test cases, both funded by court challenges and not funded by court challenges.