Government Operations committee  All the way down to people working on the front line, directors. It's called breaking the stigma.

Government Operations committee  A few ways. The survey is one critical tool. I do the one big survey, right across the whole enterprise, as we call it. We've gone to annual so that we can track these types of things when we find them. In 2014, you found some problems. Deputy heads put in place action plans, but

Government Operations committee  Right.

Government Operations committee  It's perfectly within the authority of a deputy head to do. They're responsible for the human resources, the people management within their departments, so they could do it. I took your question the other way. The fact that Ottawa is such a small town in many ways, and people k

Government Operations committee  Right.

Government Operations committee  It is case by case. If that employee is finding that they're uncomfortable, they would probably go to their HR, their senior disclosure officer, who would talk to the deputy head. The deputy head, as I say, has full authority to move, give leave...there is a good tool box there t

Government Operations committee  You're not saying abolish them, but rather just have them report other places?

Government Operations committee  Right.

Government Operations committee  It will sound bureaucratic to you but it's true. It will come in to a clash between the deputy heads who have responsibility for the people in the department, so having somebody sitting in the department but reporting elsewhere—

Government Operations committee  As I say, I think it would set up a clash between the authorities of deputy heads to manage people versus—

Government Operations committee  Well, it's the deputy ministers' to manage—

Government Operations committee  I read the testimony as well, but from my perspective of where I sit I think that we have quite a robust integrity regime. We have the code. I make sure that through the code employees sign their letters of offer. They get the code, and they have to go for training at the Canada

Government Operations committee  Right.

Government Operations committee  All I can tell you is that from the Treasury Board, from where I sit as the chief human resources officer, I think it can always be improved but I wouldn't scrap it and start again. It would be something of a process of continuous improvement. If there are departments or areas wh

Government Operations committee  I said I would not.