Fisheries committee  There is every evidence that the capelin stock is overfished, but that's not sufficient. The science capability should be there to determine that. Then if it's determined, as he says, then you do it. Why go out and satisfy a few Japanese people with the roe from capelin and kill thousands of male capelin that are useless to the process?

Fisheries committee  Yes, I just wanted just one sentence at the end, and that is this. Unless and until fisheries management improves, until DFO carries out its mandate to rebuild a scientific capacity and manage the fisheries back to life, I think we're in real trouble, and I don't believe that under the present structure this will happen.

Fisheries committee  Okay, but let me say this to you.

Fisheries committee  After all the years that we suffered through this overfishing by foreigners, finally, extension of jurisdiction came, 200 miles, so we got rid of them. Thank God. The northern cod and the others would now have a chance to recover. Six months later, after the extension of jurisdiction, the Minister of Fisheries for this country offered a subsidy of $23,800 per trawler trip for the Canadian trawlers to resume fishing off Labrador.

Fisheries committee  This is the last time probably I'll be before your committee, but let me say this to you. The last time I sat here it was with a bunch of people from Newfoundland who objected to the Canadian government putting in the NAFO agreement this loophole that would allow them re-entry inside 200 miles.

Fisheries committee  It's very difficult. The fact is that we still have an international fishery carried out on our doorstep, until and unless, either one or two things.... The government was reluctant, for trade reasons and other pressures I guess, to extend jurisdiction where they should have. We compromised, which probably we shouldn't have, and talked about “custodial management”, in other words making Canada manager of the fishery that's outside, allocating fish to foreigners on the basis of their historical performances of the past.

Fisheries committee  The unfortunate thing is that the moratorium is 25 years old. There was some recovery on the St. Pierre Bank off the southern coast of Newfoundland, a very important bank, with a tremendous fishery, actually—yielded about 80,000 to 90,000 tonnes a year. There was a slight recovery, maybe 10 years ago, and DFO made the big mistake of reopening the fishery when the base of the fishery, in terms of year class—one-, two-, three-, four-, five-, six-year-old fishery—was not there.

Fisheries committee  That I don't know, but it came from above so it had to be.... You have the scientists who are making the presentation to the managers, and then it goes into the bureaucratic system, I guess, and on to the minister. Somewhere in there, these recommendations.... What I'm saying is that many of the policies that have been applied to our fisheries particularly in the past 25 years have been politically motivated.

Fisheries committee  No, the northern cod is from Hamilton Inlet back down to the nose of the bank, but down on the southern part is the tail of the Grand Banks. It's a separate stock.

Fisheries committee  Yes, you're doing it but....

Fisheries committee  I can give you an example. Since I retired, I and other retired scientists as well were invited by the director general here in Newfoundland to attend a session by 25 scientists who were doing an assessment of St. Pierre Bank, just about 10 years ago. We sat with them for about seven or eight days during which time these scientists presented the information they had as a result of their at-sea research efforts and so on.

Fisheries committee  Of course, this has been on the agenda for quite a long time, and many people have felt that should happen. You have to remember that this fishery that we delivered to Canada is unique with respect to other fisheries on the east coast. For example, when the moratorium occurred we lost 20,000 jobs and 80,000 people moved out of the province to Alberta, where they were fortunately able to get employment.

Fisheries committee  Thank you, sir. First of all, thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. We're here on very short notice, as you know. We made some notes before we came to the meeting this morning, but I have to tell you that I disposed of them during the previous three panels, because many of the statements made are tremendously important statements, and I'm sure you see, not only from the statements of these gentlemen but from others, that the fishing industry in Newfoundland today is one horrible mess.