Public Safety committee  Yes, and I don't envy you trying to really balance those two.

Public Safety committee  That's the elephant in the room, in many respects. I think the word we're going to have to use is “normally”, in that the CSIS Act, the way in which security measures take place, should normally be consistent with the charter. But there will be circumstances under emergency conditions, such as the equivalent of a 9/11, heaven forbid, in the Canadian context—

Public Safety committee  Yes, beyond section 1.

Public Safety committee  Well, look, the charter guarantees protection against unreasonable search or seizure. How do you define “unreasonable” in the middle of a crisis? It also guarantees that an individual cannot be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned. How do you define “arbitrarily” under emergency circumstances?

Public Safety committee  Yes.

Public Safety committee  It's particularly hard in the Muslim community. We know that to be the case, not exclusively but frequently, in that context. I think it has to come out of the community itself. It's not something we're going to be able to legislate or deal with in a top-down manner. It has to come out of the families, and it has to come out of the communities.

Public Safety committee  Well, you really need to pose that not to a historian but to a social worker. I'm not going to give you a very professional response to that question, but I'll give you a very personal response to it. When I was a kid, I belonged to a local police club. This was in a semi-rural area outside of Toronto.

Public Safety committee  I think you have to try to identify the leaders within those communities and let them take the lead. I'll come back to the context of Haiti. One of the reasons the Brazilians were so successful in rebuilding Haiti, until the disastrous earthquake, of course, in 2010, was that they worked with the local community and sought out the people who were self-identified as the leaders within that community.

Public Safety committee  I think the primacy should be on Parliament in this respect. There's no reason to exclude civilian oversight committees, but if they're going to be established, they have to have clear guidelines and they have to have teeth.

Public Safety committee  These are interesting questions and problems as well. Very broadly, to come back to what you were also asking a moment ago, there's always a danger of casting the net too broadly. I think the United States currently does that. I think that's a very serious problem. In terms of information sharing, we do not want to ever have another Maher Arar case.

Public Safety committee  I'm sorry. I'll stop there.

Public Safety committee  My one-word answer to that is yes.

Public Safety committee  I'm not sure what you mean by a higher level of registration within the schools.

Public Safety committee  Yes. British Columbia and Alberta both have had fairly high dropout rates in the high school context. I think continuing involvement in educational institutions is important, but I think equally important is what happens after 3:30 or 4 o'clock in the afternoon.

Public Safety committee  There's a huge gap there. Kids who are in school between 8 o'clock in the morning and 4 o'clock in the afternoon are less likely to be getting into difficulty than are those who are not in school.