Industry committee  With natural resources, if we look at the model of Europe, they have natural resources, fewer than us, but they have a lot. What they've done is they've gone up the food chain. To the example of nanocellulose, it's used a lot in cosmetics, and we have some R and D on that, but we haven't moved up the food chain where we do very sophisticated products for very international, sophisticated consumers.

Industry committee  Well, the standard agreement from the tri-agency councils, which is a template that's used by universities, is that the SME that's the partner in a grant, that has put either cash, in-kind contributions, or a combination of both, has right of first refusal on that intellectual property.

Industry committee  Because usually for a research group, I get funds from at least 15 different sources for my group.

Industry committee  They're from different countries and they're from different provinces.

Industry committee  It's a good question, and I can't answer that. I'm on—

Industry committee  Yes. The companies that I work with like internships. The basic internship is four to six months. Mitacs is six months. Companies like one-year internships more. This is more the model from Germany, where you're doing an apprenticeship. It doesn't feel like a burden. People want to have you there.

Industry committee  Thank you, Mr. Sheehan. Internships are extremely important. Yes, the Government of Canada has always had internships. I did internships for the Government of Canada in the early 1990s. In my opinion, there are not enough. I know we have a lot, but we don't have enough. Students come knocking on my door almost every day.

Industry committee  It would be great if that were the reality, but the minute you put in lawyers and you have companies, they all want to negotiate. Everybody wants to negotiate. I'll give an example. In the U.S., the overhead is 52.3%. In Canada, it's usually around 20% to 40%. You have to remember that this overhead is not just for the legal fees, but to be able to do research and labs, and for the security of the university, your Internet connection, your heating and your plumbing in your labs, and just getting desks for your students.

Industry committee  I'll just give you an idea of the part that is standard. The funding agencies give overhead to the academic institutions, and those are standardized. It's more on the negotiation per se between an R and D company and a university. Yes, I agree with that statement. It would be better if it were standardized.

Industry committee  Yes, the STTRs. What it does is that a company that is either a spin-off from academia or just a spin-off can go out and get funding that pays for all of their R and D.

Industry committee  When I worked for an American multinational, it also had a plant in.... I'm going to start with Europe. George talked about it in his testimony, but really, when I worked for this company, people in my company were paid to do R and D on these large, what were usually multi-country, long-term projects, for which the company was getting support.

Industry committee  Yes, exactly. It's different from what we have. I gave the example of the SDTC, which pays only 30%, so you need to have your investors lined up and already have the proof of concept done, but this allows you.... It's a stage that is a bit earlier, and it doesn't necessarily have to be linked to universities.

Industry committee  It's an easy route, and it's a way to really build your patent portfolio as well, in a certain time frame. We were talking about not having a lot of resources in universities. This is one way to do it.

Industry committee  A quick answer is that it's what people want. As a taxpayer, what I want is good jobs in Canada. The innovation economy creates a lot of good jobs. We're a rich country, but if we want to stay rich we have to keep investing in innovation. Automotive is booming around the world.

Industry committee  I'm aware of the different rules in the Ottawa area with intellectual property and the different institutions. On the filing of patents, universities have a finite amount of funds that are available to patents. If there is a company that has a long-standing relationship and that shows interest and has been collaborating with that research group for a long time, they will say, “Okay, we have a good chance of a licence, so let's patent.”