Industry committee  I talked about two of them in my presentation already: the reversion rights and the second one, the cinematographic works. I don't really have much more to say on those unless you have specific questions. I think both those proposals don't make any sense.

Industry committee  That can happen, but it's relatively rare. In most cases, for these kinds of charitable things, a lot of the performers are contributing their services as well. Yes, it's true that there are costs.

Industry committee  There is a formal test.

Industry committee  That's what I'm saying. There is a formal test. The test came out of the Supreme Court of Canada case dealing the Kiwanis Club and the Casa Loma. The Kiwanis Club lost and had to pay royalties because their charitable charter said nothing about putting on concerts.

Industry committee  That wasn't what they were talking about.

Industry committee  I think this is a hard thing to capture. Look at some of the charitable organizations like the Royal Conservatory of Music. If you look at what they do, between the educational aspect and the presentation aspects and so on, it is absolutely impossible that they aren't serving, not only a charitable purpose but an important purpose in society and in the community.

Industry committee  The first one is the charitable exemption. You had some submissions by, I believe, SOCAN and perhaps some others regarding limitations to be put onto the charitable exemption. The charitable exemption has been in our act for almost a hundred years. The only major litigation about it was in the 1940s involving Casa Loma and concerts they put on and this kind of thing.

Industry committee  He just says you should take reversion of copyright out. I don't see any reason. The only reason he really gives is the uncertainty. The uncertainty comes about because of the life of the author. The life of the author is uncertainty about term. It also makes the uncertainty about reversion rights.

Industry committee  Yes, I think it does. You have to remember that what is being asked for is not the right to be able to use every piece of copyright information or data or whatever. I think all of the submissions have made it clear. They're only talking about legally acquired copyright material.

Industry committee  It doesn't seem to. Remember that copyright is a bundle of rights. In order for there to be a copyright event, you have to have done one of the rights. My reading a book is not a copyright event. Absent the reproduction part, there should be no reason why a machine reading a book is a copyright event as well.

Industry committee  Yes, as I think I tweeted this morning, the Australians have gone all in on site blocking, and they're the first country really to do it. It's a very interesting experiment.

Industry committee  Yes, the Chinese didn't even have laws to do it. They've really gone all in and it's going to be very interesting to see how it turns out. If anything, I would have thought most other countries would want to sit back for the next three, four, five years and see how good or how bad it turns out, as opposed to necessarily following what they did.

Industry committee  I had proposed five things in my written provisions that should be in 30.71: it can involve human intervention; it's not limited to automatic processes; it's not limited to instantaneous processes; obviously machine learning is a technological process. These are the things that I think would necessarily be done, but frankly, the kind of proposal that Mr. de Beer is making, where you have a non-exhaustive list of fair use that mentions machine learning, mentions incidental reproduction, I would have thought that would be a solution to so many of these things and would not require a specific list of things that we have to try to deal with on a going-forward basis.

Industry committee  I use this often for students. When you think about copyright it's an island and the island has a bunch of little bays, little cut-outs and little eddies and things in it but the island is still the nature of the rights. The island isn't a bigger island that you're cutting parts out of.

Industry committee  I've been on both sides of this. I've written, and I've negotiated these deals and so on. The fact is that in academic writing, the publishers have a huge advantage because the academics need to publish. You have a very willing seller and a not-very-willing buyer. They'll buy it or not buy it, and they're going to take most of the money for it.