Government Operations committee  Well, I don't see why a parliamentary committee in Canada can't take note of the estimates and write a substantive report. So the report is not on the estimates, but it's taking note of them and writing a report on some issue that the committee wants to do a report on. I see no r

Government Operations committee  Well, you see, the shifting was within a vote, from one allotment to another—a sub-vote to another, as I prefer—but you can't have a vote structure so small that it cripples discretion within departments. On the other hand, you can't have a vote structure so big that departments

Government Operations committee  All of you, I assume, sit on departmental committees as well as this one. You look at departmental estimates there. You might ask yourselves when you're looking at the estimates—or get the committee to ask—if the votes are too big or too little, if the allotments are appropriate,

Government Operations committee  No, but I can try.

Government Operations committee  Parliamentary control is on the vote, and the royal recommendation is based on the vote. Within the vote, there are sub-votes—the allotment—and my understanding was that they were proposing that kind of readjustment within the vote, not from vote to vote.

Government Operations committee  I think—I'm pretty sure, but I couldn't swear to it.

Government Operations committee  Treasury Board has responsibility for overseeing the production of accounts in departments. I think you should direct that question to Treasury Board and give them specific examples of the kinds of divergences in practice that concern you. It's certainly possible to make the acco

Government Operations committee  Shall I begin on that? I could get something off my chest. Before the current system existed, back in the dark old days of the 1960s, there was sometimes a risk in minority parliaments that the budget wouldn't ever get passed. It did, finally. Sometimes the estimates would be ap

Government Operations committee  I worry a little about that, because the votes and the sub-votes, or the allotments, to a large extent mirror the program structure of government. They don't mirror the purposes of government, but in terms of the program structure as delivered by departments, there's a pretty dec

Government Operations committee  I think it was a very good question, and it was a very good answer, except that we're going to need two reporting agencies there. One would be the Department of Finance on the overall income outgo picture, and the second would be the Treasury Board on the expenditure side. It mig

Government Operations committee  Yes. On the other hand, what we have in the reform process in Canada is what you might call a “fractured” dialogue. A bunch of MPs get in, whose tenure, as I say, is less than 10 years, and they're dissatisfied with the estimates process. They produce a report, with often good id

Government Operations committee  I've wondered about that, having worked on the inside and looking at it from the outside. The answer is the amount of information that Parliament gets is “that big”, compared with “that big” within the department and “that big” in the Treasury Board, and so on all the way along.

Government Operations committee  I've wrestled with that, and perhaps my academic colleague might have something to add, but my impression is that when you separate the capital budget from the operating budget, you open avenues for fudging. What is capital and what isn't capital is a debatable notion. I know th

Government Operations committee  I should not call it a slush fund. I should call it a fund that was used at the minister's discretion and that became cultural amenities in his riding. Is that acceptable?

Government Operations committee  Thank you.