Government Operations committee  We always give them the advice. However, I have to be clear: The decision of how to use that advice is theirs. We're always clear on that because a lot of them will not go forward. We've had some clear cases where proof has been brought to us of wrongdoing—and I mean proof in o

Government Operations committee  I wouldn't use the word “efficient”, but I would agree with your statement. Ian?

Government Operations committee  I'll support what Ian is saying, to go back and start from scratch. What I will state is, at least at the federal level, to extend it out to every federal agency that's out there, which would include a huge number. Then also, within the federal purview, it could be extended to a

Government Operations committee  Ian, you've done more work on this than I have.

Government Operations committee  I think the first thing you have to do is to have the political levels acknowledge that whistle-blowers are a value and not an impediment to the process. As soon as something happens—the senior bureaucrats are really good at this, by the way, and we could give you examples—they s

Government Operations committee  I will speak first. I won't go into details, but I will say that's exactly what the Integrity Commissioner is supposed to be. Please note that I said “supposed to”.

Government Operations committee  Yes, the other thing, which we haven't mentioned often enough, is the need in the law to have the reverse onus, which basically says that if employers try to retaliate, they have to prove they have not retaliated. The whistle-blower needs protection from retaliation, and if you m

Government Operations committee  This becomes a difficult one to answer. I'm certain Mr. Bron and Mr. Holman can address it too. How do you develop trust? Trust is the key core of a whistle-blowing situation, and they're not going to come forward if they don't trust you. They don't trust the present Integrity C

Government Operations committee  Essentially it's the same. They do not want to speak out because of the consequences, and they see really heavy, negative consequences. Especially now, what happens if they lose their jobs? A lot of them, let's be blunt, have a family, young children, a mortgage. It's a leap of a

Government Operations committee  One of the things used down in the U.S. is literally rewarding whistle-blowers. That's the Securities and Exchange Commission. One of the other two may want to talk about it a bit more, but it certainly has proven effective. In Canada, we passed a law that said that if you repo

Government Operations committee  That's a good point.

Government Operations committee  Maybe I'll go fist. I'm a member of Transparency International, as it happens. You're right that we're now 11th, but you didn't address that it's a drop from where we were traditionally. We were traditionally, for years, in the top 10. We have dropped out of the top 10 now. A g

Government Operations committee  I don't know if Canada can legislate—I haven't gone through a legal situation—but it seems to me that many, many acts affecting Canadians are national acts. I mean, even paying income tax is a national act, though we may not want to. The point is that you'd have to ask that yours

Government Operations committee  Both Ian and I have been extensively involved with the whistle-blowing community. I have tried—and I'm certain Ian has—to get into the organizations that talked about wanting to create it. I took the time about four or five years ago and wrote to every deputy minister in the fede

Government Operations committee  I'm in exactly the same situation. The more people learn about information, the more chance you have to have input into it. Yes, mistakes will happen. Corrections will be faster, but over and above mistakes, corruption and wrongdoing will be avoided because people will be watchin