Transport committee  I think it gets back to the nature of P3s. If we have this body of evidence that we've seen from the auditors general that existing P3s have had these problems—for example, in terms of the cost overruns—then the evidence tells us that future P3s are going to have the same problem

Transport committee  I don't think it's accurate. If we genuinely want to see new infrastructure and there are all these problems with P3s in terms of a lack of democratic oversight, in terms of cost overruns, in terms of delivering less, why would we not go the route of public infrastructure where w

Transport committee  I think there is still potential. It gets back to fundamentally the key thing is returning its mandate to focusing on publicly financed projects and moving away from and ruling out privatization and P3s. That's really what's going to be in the public interest. It's going to be mu

Transport committee  I think it depends on a few considerations, but fundamentally, it gets back to whether or not the CIB's mandate is one of expanding privatization and P3 projects or whether it's a mandate for expansion of public infrastructure. I think it could play a positive role if it is focus

Transport committee  That's definitely a concern. It gets back to questions of community accountability as well. If and when the various problems that have plagued P3s and continue to plague them arise in other projects, there is no recourse for local communities in the same way, in terms of holding

Transport committee  I think it's a bit of an absurd claim that cutting protection to 99% of waterways in Canada is protecting—

Transport committee  Perhaps if your definition of protecting them is protecting the rights of fossil fuel companies to pass pipelines through as many waterways as possible, then yes.

Transport committee  I think a bigger part of the conversation as well in terms of building a just recovery is while there is an infrastructure deficit and there is a need for significant public infrastructure expansion, there is a serious operational crisis. If you look at things like public transit

Transport committee  I was saying that I think it gets back to community needs and accountability. It's not just about the financing, but about whether people in communities have recourse to the projects that affect their lives. If you look at the transit example that was raised earlier, you can se

Transport committee  I think what the pandemic has made clear is that the federal government is in a position and has spent a fair amount on urgent needs, but what is partly—

Transport committee  Regardless, there is a question of what is a wise investment and what is not. The evidence is that P3s are not.

Transport committee  Well, I'm sure there are, the point being that if it's a public program, then governments can be held to account. However, there are far fewer mechanisms to do so with private corporations.

Transport committee  Well, I think one good example of that is when the previous Conservative government cut protections for water across the country. That's just one example where—

Transport committee  Yes.

Transport committee  I haven't read that report myself, but that does sound troubling. It just also sounds emblematic of the kind of lesser transparency we see when we go down the road of privatization and P3s, and that's one of the fundamental reasons to oppose them.