Canada-China Relations committee  In my world, I think the interaction with foreign actors becomes higher on the priority list based on the type of research we're doing. With COVID-19 vaccines, that became a higher priority, and that's where people have approached us to have these conversations. Most times we don't hear about that, just because it doesn't seem to be an overall concern.

Canada-China Relations committee  For the phase one study that ended up being cancelled, they gained nothing and we gained nothing, because we were not able to generate any data from the planned study. The study didn't go ahead because we couldn't get the vaccine. For that study, it just turned out to be a waste of a lot of time for all parties because of the block of the export of the product.

Canada-China Relations committee  No, because the type of information that they would have gained if the study had gone forward would have been information that they would have sponsored to generate, so it would have been clinical trial information.

Canada-China Relations committee  I am not familiar with it myself. I know that for any study we do, the university screens it first, and any research we do has to be signed off by our vice-president of research, so—

Canada-China Relations committee  I'm not sure. I can't answer that.

Canada-China Relations committee  Yes, absolutely. I was certainly aware that there are state actors and particular countries that have been of concern. That's been in the news, and I follow that. Although it's not a formal process that I am aware of, I certainly am cognizant of and aware that, in my interactions with any study sponsor, I'm going to make sure that we're not being taken advantage of in any way and that we're not losing any information that is not in the public domain.

Canada-China Relations committee  I would absolutely still collaborate with them. It has been a very good collaboration with the individuals at CanSino. I think before I got too far down the path I'd want to make sure that if there were a vaccine that I needed, we'd test it out to make sure it could be shipped so I didn't expend a lot of time and effort.

Canada-China Relations committee  Yes. I have met with members of CSIS multiple times in the past year and a half and went through—

Canada-China Relations committee  My interactions have been ad hoc, but as part of those conversations, I was told that they provide information routinely to the institutions where research is being done, particularly where they consider it to be high-risk research that is being done. They told me that they had met with members of my various institutions, the IT people in the institutions, about that risk.

Canada-China Relations committee  Absolutely.

Canada-China Relations committee  With the type of research I'm doing, typically I am not generating intellectual property. I'm evaluating intellectual property of other entities, and that's the same whether it be a domestic or a foreign manufacturer. The type of work I'm doing at this level is evaluative research.

Canada-China Relations committee  That's correct. We're certainly aware of those concerns.

Canada-China Relations committee  You are absolutely correct. I am the global principal investigator for that study. There are principal investigators in each of the individual countries, but I'm the overall investigator. My centre has the data team that's doing the data and statistical analyses and providing those results to the regulatory authorities in all of those countries.

Canada-China Relations committee  That's right. We would have done that for the phase one and phase two studies in Canada. Then we would have gone on to phase three, globally. The reason, of course, is that if we had done those trials and gotten a vaccine here, then we would have had a vaccine that would have been available in Canada.

Canada-China Relations committee  That's correct.