Natural Resources committee  We already have consent with the ESG guidelines. I don't believe UNDRIP is going to give us more power than we already have.

Natural Resources committee  If we had ESG guidelines in the 1970s, we wouldn't have the environmental problems we have today. The first nations are being charged with the development of the natural resources. UNDRIP is—

Natural Resources committee  We have environmental protection and regulation that's sufficient to protect our country, and we have Canadians running these businesses. We don't need another level of regulatory hurdles to go through in bureaucracy. It's big government all over again—

Natural Resources committee  I think the first and biggest opportunity is the blue hydrogen transition that we're seeing in Alberta, in both the north and south. Six big oil sands companies are applying a lot of their resources toward this, and we hope the government will be able to back them in this venture, including on carbon sequestration, and so forth.

Natural Resources committee  Sorry, who is the question for?

Natural Resources committee  As I said before, we've been steeped in the oil and gas industry on our first nation for the last 70 years, reaping some two billion dollars' worth of royalties from the Bonnie Glen deposit. We get all the impacts of both environmental damage and the work we have to do to partner with our partner companies in the oil industry.

Natural Resources committee  We advised our chiefs and wrote a letter to the Prime Minister, who was nice enough to write back acknowledging our concerns and issues regarding UNDRIP. We feel that it's an ambiguous law, and whether or not it is going to be upheld will depend on the government in power. We believe it's so ambiguous that it's going to give the legal industry a large swath to sue the federal government and industries and rest of Canadians for their taxpayer dollars.

Natural Resources committee  That's right. In my mind, under this legislation, it's a vehicle for the government to be able to stop projects that first nations are supporting. It's contradicting the fact that once you give power to first nations to deny a project, you also give power to first nations to build a project.

Natural Resources committee  Sure. We have to keep in mind that the National Coalition of Chiefs and its members are not climate deniers. We believe the transition has to exist, just like we believe the transition has to exist in both Canada and the rest of the world. We are the leaders in environmental protection.

Natural Resources committee  We have many examples across Canada, but we want to try to focus on on-reserve training. The most important part of defeating on-reserve poverty is to be able to bring training to our communities. In order to do so, we need the government to recognize this and to empower regional coalitions of first nations communities to develop their own training programs.

Natural Resources committee  We believe the transition to blue hydrogen is the way to go. We know there is an abundance of natural gas in western Canada, and in eastern Canada for that matter, that we can use for the next century, if we wanted to. As we move forward, closer to technology, that will give us a better opportunity to get away from greenhouse gases.

Natural Resources committee  There is truth in the fact that a lack of consultation by this government has hurt us quite a bit. The northern gateway project, for example, had 31 out of the 40 right-of-way communities signed on in support of the project—and not only support, but they were also willing to take on the risk of ownership in this project.

Natural Resources committee  Can you hear me? Would you like me to proceed now?

Natural Resources committee  Thank you, Chair and committee members, for inviting me to talk today about the fair energy transition. My name is Dale Swampy. I am the president of the National Coalition of Chiefs. The NCC is a non-partisan, independent coalition of first nations leaders who recognize the importance of energy and resource development as a means to improve community well-being and defeat on-reserve poverty.

Natural Resources committee  Yes. That was our biggest problem when we first got organized back in 2017. There was a group of chiefs from northern gateway pipeline who weren't consulted and kept on requesting meetings time and time again with the Liberal government, and who were refused. Thirty-one out of the 40 communities along the right-of-way of northern gateway were signed on as equity owners in that project, and the Liberal government refused to meet with us.