Public Safety committee  I think we have to step back a moment from that question, because I actually don't have the answer to that. However, I do think what we need is something akin to what's happening right now with the public independent inquiry into sexual misconduct in the military. I think a public independent inquiry on this issue would be well served, and then recommendations could flow from that.

Public Safety committee  Now I'll go to my comments on COVID-19. During COVID-19, there has been less CSC oversight than ever, making prisoners even more vulnerable to abuse. This lack of oversight, we believe, has contributed to unacceptable and unlawful conditions of confinement during COVID-19 that were certainly not contemplated or foreseen by the courts at the time of sentencing of most of the prisoners.

Public Safety committee  I'll wrap up. This is it. I'm wrapping up.

Public Safety committee  In addition, CSC employs a myriad of other segregation methods to isolate prisoners for unregulated periods of time. I think this is what Dr. Doob was referring to. I just want to say that we must continue to be guided by the principle that human rights are not just abstract or theoretical.

Public Safety committee  Thank you. I was looking forward to hearing the rest of Dr. Sprott's testimony. I'm very grateful to be here today with all of you. It's a pleasure to see you all, and I'm grateful that you're working on this topic. You may know about the Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies, for which I am the executive director.

Justice committee  I'll answer very quickly on that. There seems to often be a lack of understanding that the line between the perpetrator of harm and the victim is blurry and that it is often a circular process. Many of the people we work with in the prisons designated for women are also victims of gender-based violence and have been survivors of an intense amount of trauma in their lives.

Justice committee  Thank you very much. Good afternoon, Madam Chair and members of the justice committee. CAEFS, as we call the Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies, is a national organization. Our main office is located on the unceded and unsurrendered territory of the Algonquin nation.