Public Accounts committee  Yes, it's exactly as the Auditor General said. We like to look at leaders in this space and see what they are doing. As mentioned in paragraph 1.45, we did look at, for example, the State of California. They had introduced agile processes in their technology procurement. That's o

Public Accounts committee  Yes, they are.

Public Accounts committee  Very much so. It's outcomes based and whether you meet the needs of the user.

Public Accounts committee  That's where it is very important for the key players—whoever is the owner of the system—to very much understand what the need of the user is, and to say, okay, this is what they need for delivering benefits, and if we arrive at delivering those benefits, then we've met our need.

Public Accounts committee  Thank you for the question, Madam Chair. In terms of metrics what I would say is that each procurement is very different; hence, the need to be agile. For each complex IT project, it's a big question mark: How are we going to solve this big problem? I can't say that there would