Fisheries committee  We need certainty. We own packaging supplies and we have markets; we need certainty on fisheries as soon as possible.

Fisheries committee  Thank you so much.

Fisheries committee  Yes.

Fisheries committee  No.

Fisheries committee  This was a big change and big news in the industry, and it caused a lot of concern. We were caught flat-footed and were shocked by this change in interpretation of the existing regulation.

Fisheries committee  I can't testify for most fishermen, but when you do raise your head, as I am here now, yes, there may be some repercussions. What was the other part of your question, Mr. Johns?

Fisheries committee  I'd like to address that question too. When I started fishing, it was all owner-operators, and we saw the changes in management as quotas were instituted in the fisheries. It's really created a lot of problems with licence leasing and distortions of the market. I'm 65 and I have

Fisheries committee  No, it's almost impossible for a young person to buy a licence.

Fisheries committee  Yes, for a fisherman. They're leasing licences. In one case, I know a guy who owns eight boats, and he leases—

Fisheries committee  There's at least one guy who owns eight boats, and he gets a number of licences that he leases from first nations individuals. He puts those licences on a number of boats, and then he gets other people to fish them, so this one fellow has eight licences and doesn't own any of the

Fisheries committee  Another aspect is that many of the licences are held by fishing companies, so that gives them a very strong position to wield influence and also set the price that those fishermen will take. Often the business model is that the fisherman owns the boat and the processor owns the l

Fisheries committee  I don't believe that DFO's characterization of the consultation process was accurate. My understanding is that the consultations were industry-driven. We asked to meet with them several times, and at first the answer from DFO was that there was no need to meet. Finally they did a

Fisheries committee  I agree.

Fisheries committee  It's mostly for economic reasons, yes.

Fisheries committee  It seems like an argument that they brought up after the fact when they had to try to explain their actions.