Justice committee  That is right. We have seen that giving the police more discretion doesn't work. We've seen that through the 2018 legislation meant to deal with administration of justice offences, and I have talked to individuals. On her podcast, I talked to a young woman who had lost her brother.

Justice committee  Yes, it's something that most definitely should be reinstituted. The weight of the legal community—academics, scholars and people who practised—recognized the importance of that clause, as did the Supreme Court in finding the parole eligibility periods for murder constitutional.

Justice committee  The problem with mandatory minimum sentences is that they are a one-size-fits-all solution. Yes, armed robbery should be taken very seriously, and it is. I've represented dozens of individuals, if not hundreds, who have been charged with serious offences, including armed robbery.

Justice committee  The criminal justice system in legislation like this is a very blunt tool to deliver a message to the public. More concerning to me has been the politicization of criminal justice over the last number of years, the ignoring of evidence. A message is sent to the public by virtue of the fact that things are criminalized and, in most cases, even when there is no minimum sentence, or even when there is a minimum sentence, if there is a very serious crime, the sentence is usually in excess of that.

Justice committee  That's right. That's statutory. There can't be any public safety concerns. It has to be a sentence under two years. You cannot think of the most heinous crime and say that person might be released on a conditional sentence, because that is not what is prescribed in the legislation.

Justice committee  There are a number of systemic issues. We certainly have seen the mass incarceration of indigenous individuals and racialized individuals. There are a number of reasons for that with minimum sentences. Number one, it sometimes relies on prosecutorial discretion as to whether minimum sentences are followed through with or not.

Justice committee  I'll give you one example. Mr. Moore talked about balance. Having hard and fast rules that prevent something isn't balanced. It's unbalanced. That's why the restrictions on conditional sentences have been found unconstitutional. In one of my cases I represented a very young Black man.

Justice committee  That's right. The proponents of minimum sentences say that they deter crime, that the main good they do is they show how serious we're taking the offence, and it will stop people. Of course, with punishment after the fact, the harm has already been done. The main thing about minimum sentences is, yes, it increases prison populations.

Justice committee  Thank you very much for the invitation. It's a pleasure to be back before the committee. My name is Michael Spratt. I'm a lawyer. I'm certified as a criminal law specialist by the Law Society of Ontario, and I'm a partner at the criminal law firm of AGP LLP here in Ottawa. I've served on the board of the Criminal Lawyers' Association.