Agriculture committee  In terms of barns, I really don't have experience with that as I do not have any animals on my farm.

Agriculture committee  I wouldn't look to have enough evidence to support what we're doing in terms of a future. A lot of that is what we've been doing to show we are environmentalists and stewards of the land. We weren't directed to start no-till cropping. Ontario simply took the initiative and decided to do it, and then found out it was better for the soils.

Agriculture committee  In general, as farmers, we are price-takers. We have nowhere to pass that on to somebody else. If a carbon tax is applied to, say, trucking or different things like this that we use on the farm, those costs get passed to us. They stop with us because we have nowhere to recoup that carbon piece.

Agriculture committee  No problem.

Agriculture committee  Similarly, I do not have those numbers. We would look to the government to provide the numbers they've come up with in that case. I know that, in speaking before, it was thought that grain drying was happening 24-7, 12 months of the year, when they were putting some of the numbers out.

Agriculture committee  It would not be the case. We tried to make sure that we brought it down to the farm level as to exactly when those are being used, whether it's a few weeks or a couple of months at the most, for most farmers. I would think that grain drying would be a very small percentage.

Agriculture committee  Sure. I would just echo the comment that you can put some money out, but when the expenditure is going to be large on the farm side, those dollars can be used up fairly quickly. When we look at this runway, I'd also like to point out that when we look at, say, electric vehicles today, that took decades and decades before it was even an approachable idea that was going to work.

Agriculture committee  Yes. I know that Grain Farmers of Ontario has several research projects right now undergoing different ways to dry grain.

Agriculture committee  I am in a similar area, where I do not have animals on-farm or animal barns. I think they could be looked at by having somebody from that sector speak on that.

Agriculture committee  I think in general we came here to have an exemption in place, period. The innovation can happen at a rapid rate, or it can take a long time to establish an industry. I don't think there's an easy way to jump in and put a number on it. If we're saying 10 years, then it gives some roadway for government and farmers to work together on it.

Agriculture committee  Yes. I think that, as we've said previously, if the sunset clause gives enough runway for actual innovation to take place, it can be helpful and it can work. As you're saying, a decade away...a lot can happen, and we'd be open to seeing innovation hopefully solving it. I would like to say that I don't think allowing us to operate as we do on our farms right now slows down innovation.

Agriculture committee  That would have been me.

Agriculture committee  Yes, I was the one who made that comment, and those are the numbers. We had worked out that under 15% of actual dollars spent on carbon were being refunded by the rebate.

Agriculture committee  I would have to look a little more into the agricultural clean technology program. I think a partnership between farmers and the government in coming up with solutions is probably the best way to go about it—more collaboration and maybe less top-down management. Maybe seeing how it would work on the farm and then sharing costs on some research and testing could be the way to go.

Agriculture committee  I know that, in general, farm innovation can happen at a quick rate, or it can take some time. I think that in this case a sunset clause could be entertained if it were long enough—say a 10-year runway with a variable such that it would result in something reliable that we're able to use, and with a background industry here to support that.