Environment committee  I think de-risking those investments is really important, especially for wind. It's fairly competitive, but uncertainty in what regulations are going to look like can put a damper on things.

Environment committee  There are a couple of things. The first thing is that it really depends. Talking about robustness, one thing that changes the answer to a lot of these questions is when and where the charging is happening. If everybody comes home at six o'clock and plugs their electric vehicle into a neighbourhood with a distribution system that has not been upgraded, it doesn't work.

Environment committee  That's a great question. I think there are two parts to that question. On the one hand, I think we have to be doing everything we can as quickly as we can because these timelines are really tight. When we're doing our modelling, what's really interesting is that there are some pathways that are quite robust, meaning that as we change our assumptions or different ways in which the future could pan out, our results are quite robust against those.

Environment committee  I see two major gaps. First is improving our modelling capability in general, so that we can explore deep decarbonization. One thing that I think is happening, especially with electrification, is that our energy systems are becoming a lot more intertwined with one another. Even this conversation about EVs is really a linking of the transport system and the power system, which have historically been distinct.

Environment committee  I completely agree. I think it's a huge undertaking. That twofold number is coming out of a lot of different studies, including our own work. It could actually be more than that. I think there's a huge opportunity for federal leadership, especially when it comes to those interprovincial lines.

Environment committee  Thank you for that question. As I was saying, one big thing that the federal government can do is help convene a conversation. One of the tangible things, actually, that NRCan has already done is provide $5 million to start an energy modelling hub. The idea of the hub is basically to bring together modellers and decision-makers.

Environment committee  I think the price on carbon is a great first step, but to get to our climate goals we really do need a lot more. We especially need a lot more when it comes to strategic thinking about how to decarbonize our grids and then how to electrify as much and as quickly as possible.

Environment committee  That's exactly right. We're positioned really well in many ways. Many of our provinces are already largely decarbonized. In some ways, we're ahead of other jurisdictions that are still working on decarbonizing their power systems. At the same time, we obviously have provinces that still depend a lot on fossil energy, or fossil sources, for electricity.

Environment committee  Yes. The highest rate of renewable deployment that we've seen in Canada is about 10 gigawatts. That happened between about 2011 and 2015. That was sort of our record for wind and solar deployments. Moving forward, what we'll need to see, on average, is about 50 gigawatts, or about a fivefold increase, in addition to previous deployment levels.

Environment committee  Yes, definitely. The deployment, especially of renewables right now, but also of transmission infrastructure and EV charging and basically the technologies that we have on deck now.... Getting those in the ground is hugely important and a huge challenge. We have only 13 years between now and 2035.

Environment committee  Thank you so much for having me. Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Madeleine McPherson and I'm an energy systems modeller at the University of Victoria, where I lead a team of researchers who develop models that focus on how to decarbonize our energy systems. What we're seeing is that the electrification of transport and heating systems is at the heart of decarbonization, but it will only work if our power systems are decarbonized first.