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Canada-China Relations committee  I will say that they very much share the notion shared by a member of the previous panel, that sometimes doing the same.... Carrying on with what we've been doing is probably better than missteps, or finding new ways to act that might lead to avoiding the vicious-circle scenario that we want to avoid.

October 18th, 2022Committee meeting

Dr. Stéphanie Martel

Canada-China Relations committee  We obviously need to be concerned about these incidents. Clearly, when it comes to the potential of a Chinese presence and that state-sanctioned, potentially illegal activities of surveillance are being carried out, this is a matter of getting our facts straight and making sure that whatever kinds of behaviour fall outside the line of legality are addressed and responded to.

October 18th, 2022Committee meeting

Dr. Stéphanie Martel

Canada-China Relations committee  When it comes to having very well-established experience in navigating difficult situations that have to do with great power rivalry, there are a number of ASEAN countries that Canada needs to connect more with in terms of defining our approach to China, to the major power rivalry in the Indo-Pacific, and in terms of the Indo-Pacific in general.

October 18th, 2022Committee meeting

Dr. Stéphanie Martel

Canada-China Relations committee  Recent developments in North Korea merit Canada's attention, and we've been paying attention for years. Like Canada, North Korea is a member state of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations Regional Forum. The ASEAN Regional Forum has its flaws, but it's still a great place for Canada to open lines of communication with North Korea.

October 18th, 2022Committee meeting

Dr. Stéphanie Martel

Canada-China Relations committee  Anything that can support country perspective and country expertise when it comes to China, but is also able to tap into our networks that are connected with regional perspectives on how to deal with China and with great power rivalry in general.... This is where the ASEAN angle might come into play.

October 18th, 2022Committee meeting

Dr. Stéphanie Martel

Canada-China Relations committee  If you consider how U.S. engagement has fluctuated in the Indo-Pacific region, that could be an example of a step back from which China has benefited. Withdrawing from certain multilateral platforms or cooperative mechanisms that favour diplomatic channels as a potential mechanism for dispute or crisis mitigation is not a solution, because it raises the risk of that.

October 18th, 2022Committee meeting

Dr. Stéphanie Martel

Canada-China Relations committee  Obviously we certainly can do something with what falls within our own jurisdiction in terms of making sure that the allegations that are made are followed through on and that we get our facts straight and are able to respond accordingly—absolutely. In terms of what Canada can do towards Hong Kong, again, using multilateral channels and our networks and connections with other international partners is crucial.

October 18th, 2022Committee meeting

Dr. Stéphanie Martel

Canada-China Relations committee  To your question, I don't think we have much of a choice, to be honest. China is a great power and it is not going away. We need to find ways to be able to deal and live with that reality. That said, Canada has a good record when it comes to engaging in informal mechanisms of diplomacy, through expert diplomacy, for instance, and other channels that might be used to find areas where our interests might converge.

October 18th, 2022Committee meeting

Dr. Stéphanie Martel

Canada-China Relations committee  It's going to be very difficult for Canada alone to do anything of consequence, so it's really about building our relationships with like-minded partners to be able to push China, and to present evidence that China is engaging in behaviours that are condemnable and need to be condemned.

October 18th, 2022Committee meeting

Dr. Stéphanie Martel

Canada-China Relations committee  Once again, this is an area where our interests, preferences and values fly directly in the face of what's being promoted by China. We shouldn't shy away from continuing to express our disagreement in this regard. I doubt that Canada will be able to meaningfully change the situation in Hong Kong unless we go through multilateral channels and create and maintain collaborative relationships with other actors to put some form of group pressure on China.

October 18th, 2022Committee meeting

Dr. Stéphanie Martel

Canada-China Relations committee  Obviously, when it comes to what China considers its core interests, clearly our preferences are going to clash with those of China. Our value system is going to clash with that of China. I don't think we should shy away from pointing that out when that is the case. What I want to stress is that just because China's and Canada's and western democracy's interests and values clash on a number of key issues doesn't mean they clash everywhere.

October 18th, 2022Committee meeting

Dr. Stéphanie Martel

Canada-China Relations committee  China has proven over the years that it is impacted by naming and shaming on the international stage. Where I see room for flexibility is that, for this naming and shaming to be effective in terms of the end goal that we want, for human rights to be respected, for people not be subjected to tactics and behaviours that we see as condemnable, there needs to also be room for diplomatic channels to push for our preferred courses of action.

October 18th, 2022Committee meeting

Dr. Stéphanie Martel

Canada-China Relations committee  I haven't seen a fundamental change, no. I just see that we've come out of a period of crisis. Perhaps this is an opportunity to reopen channels of communication that were closed during the crisis and to re-establish a bit more of a constructive and productive basis on which to find interests that are perhaps more compatible than originally thought in some areas of global governance.

October 18th, 2022Committee meeting

Dr. Stéphanie Martel

Canada-China Relations committee  There is a case for looking at our relationship with China separately. That said, it's essential that our strategy toward China be aligned with a more comprehensive and coherent approach to the Indo-Pacific region, as the two must go hand in hand to avoid any risk of contradiction in our engagement in the region.

October 18th, 2022Committee meeting

Dr. Stéphanie Martel

Canada-China Relations committee  I think an expert on Chinese domestic policy, which I am not, could tell you more about this. However, we can see that the Xi Jinping's rise and strengthening of power in China is quite consensual; there's a real centralization of power around this figure. That said, I think there's a tendency to exaggerate this centralization of power by drawing an analogy between Xi Jinping and Mao.

October 18th, 2022Committee meeting

Dr. Stéphanie Martel