Citizenship and Immigration committee  Right. Canada is responsible for turning people back at the border, so Canada is not an innocent party in this, but there are fixes that—

Citizenship and Immigration committee  That's exactly correct. In the example I gave of the woman who hung on to the back of a freight train, that was her dilemma, because she knew that if she stayed in the United States, there was a strong likelihood that she would be deported to face renewed gender-based harm.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I think when people are turned back from Canada, Canada does bear a responsibility, but we can do something about it. We can end the agreement or we can suspend it, but we can also look at the public policy discretionary exemptions, which this committee was concerned about in 2002 and UNHCR was concerned about in 2002.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Exactly. We have only one exemption in place now, for people facing the death penalty. It's rarely used. There was one for people from countries that Canada doesn't deport to—that's gone. Gender-based claims are a perfect example. People who would return to face jail in the United States simply because they want protection, that's another great example.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I think we have to look at the reality of the situation. We know that budget 2022 put in place $1.3 billion for the CBSA, the IRCC and the IRB. There are finances there, available for resources, and I think people shouldn't be suffering. People should be getting access to settlement resources as soon as possible.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I think what's important to note in this context is what has led up to the agreement. We know that there were concerns right from the beginning, because the agreement went into effect in 2004, but it was in 2002 that there were discussions—

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Here again, I think it's really useful to look at the very specific categories or classes of people who are experiencing lack of safety and serious deficiencies in the system. If the system doesn't function properly, people are at risk of refoulement, which means that they would be sent back to their country of origin to experience further persecution.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I think we have to look at very specific aspects of the U.S. asylum system to understand it. When people say “It's not safe”, they don't have a clear conception. What we do know is this. Someone can have a gender-based claim because they fear domestic violence, they fear sexual assault from strangers, or they've been subject to female genital mutilation.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I don't necessarily, because if there are adequate programs in the United States that would give people protection, and we just talked about temporary protected status.... I think we have to look at the situation. We know there are times when there are fewer people, and there are times when there are more people.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I think it was put in place because it was seen that the United States was a reliable partner for sharing responsibilities regarding refugees. That was the objective and raison d'être for the agreement itself. But we know now that the problems associated with it outweigh any benefits.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I think it's interesting, because there's concern about the increase in numbers, but I think we have to separate what we know from what we're just fearing. What we know is that there has been no evidence to show there will in fact be an increase. There was evidence provided through CBSA to the Federal Court in the safe third country agreement challenge, but there was no evidence.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Thank you for the invitation to appear. The Canadian Association of Refugee Lawyers is a national organization engaged in advocacy, litigation and education regarding the rights of refugees and migrants. As Minister Fraser noted last week, no one chooses to be a refugee, and people who cross into Canada between ports of entry are desperate to find safety.