Human Resources committee  Provinces already funded spaces and were already creating spaces every year.

Human Resources committee  I would say that provinces—

Human Resources committee  The reality is that Canadian families use diverse care forms to meet their needs, and those forms often change over time as their care needs change. The program, as it is being implemented, will not serve the majority of Canadians, and I have grave concerns that it will be unable to meet its space creation goals.

Human Resources committee  Thank you. When we look at quality, we look at structural dimensions—which include staff-child ratios, group size and staff qualifications, as I said—and then processed dimensions, which look more at the experience that the child has with a caregiver. We know, as I think was said earlier by another witness, that we don't necessarily have a consistent definition of “quality”, but I would say those are the two measures.

Human Resources committee  I've advocated for income splitting in the past, yes.

Human Resources committee  I'm sorry....

Human Resources committee  I'm not aware that income splitting is on the table. In fact, I think it was repealed a long time ago.

Human Resources committee  I support income splitting, because I think it helps families.

Human Resources committee  I think what we're saying is that everyone pays into the system, but few actually benefit from the system. We know that it serves, I think I said in my presentation about one-third of kids under the age of six, so what we're advocating for are policies and positions that would help a wider range of families.

Human Resources committee  Actually, a lot of the agreements limit the amount of money that can go towards space creation for for-profit or independent providers. When we speak with them, they say this is creating significant stress among these providers. Facing cost control frameworks, it's hard for them to look at future planning.

Human Resources committee  Previous to the federal announcement—in 2021, I believe—we did a costing estimate looking at what a national program might cost. Our high-end estimate suggested that it would be $36 billion over budget. I can certainly make the report, “Look Before You Leap”, available if you would like.

Human Resources committee  Bilateral agreements have been put forward, and then the new Canada-wide program layers on top of that. In a sense, I believe the agreements do the heavy lifting already, so it does make it somewhat curious that the bill is necessary. The provinces and federal government have agreed to the terms in those bills, so it's already being enacted.

Human Resources committee  Is that in terms of wait-lists?

Human Resources committee  I don't know that we can predict what those wait-lists will be. We know that early on, provinces have been missing their targets. For instance, I quoted that Saskatchewan only met 37% of its space creation target by the end of the first year of its agreements. Certainly we would know more if more data were available from the provinces, collected and sent to the federal government.

Human Resources committee  Thank you for the invitation to appear this morning, and thank you for the work of this committee in support of families across Canada. Cardus is a non-partisan think tank dedicated to clarifying and strengthening, through research and dialogue, the ways in which people, institutions and governments work together for the common good.