Human Resources committee  Thank you, Ms. Zarrillo. Did we foresee this coming? No. I don't represent the condo builders. That's a separate group and market from our members. We represent people who build long-term income-producing property. We respond to market demand, where permitted to do so, across the country.

Human Resources committee  Again, through you, Mr. Chair, that's a very good question. It's subject to the pro forma. I'll take the example of inclusionary zoning. I went through an exercise of inclusionary zoning in the city of Toronto, with some requiring a percentage of affordable in a new development, and that just killed the pro formas and still does.

Human Resources committee  I will respond first. Absolutely—I'm seeing it now. Look at Regent Park and Daniels Corp., which has done it effectively. Look at Taz corporation. Look at Dream Impact fund. It's happening all over the place, but it's a discussion across the table with numbers.

Human Resources committee  I'd love to see a modular construction industry in Canada. If we were able to build a big modular construction housing plant near a major market and have all the builders commit to buy from that modular housing company, that would be a great way to speed up construction. We don't have such an industry yet in Canada, and I'm not sure we'd have the scale yet unless we did aggregate buying, but I would love to see that.

Human Resources committee  I absolutely think that is an option. I know that in the city of Toronto they have an agency that has been looking to lever the city's vacant and underused land. I think that federally you have the Canada Lands corporation, which is charged with disposing of excess or surplus lands.

Human Resources committee  For CMHC, obviously they're in the interest rate business, so with CMHC, getting super low interest rates at 1%, float 1%.... Every pro forma is going to be a little different across the country. You have to go through it on a pro forma by pro forma basis. A development in Newmarket might be different from one in downtown Vancouver or somewhere else.

Human Resources committee  Through you, Mr. Chair, that's the toughest question I've had so far: How are we going to do it? Here's the problem: We don't have enough manpower in this country to double production of housing in the period that we're allotted. We need to tweak our immigration system to bring in a lot more skilled labour and not simply reward economic immigrants.

Human Resources committee  Through the Chair, I think it's a very good question, a very good point, and it's probably something that a lot of owners struggle with. There are only certain types of improvements to a building that are recoverable under an AGI, at least in Ontario. There is often a long amortization period for that expenditure.

Human Resources committee  I would say, on the former, in terms of new supply.... I mentioned in my comments that many new projects—whether you're a for-profit or not-for-profit entity—don't pencil out, because interest rates and overall costs are higher. We need a break somewhere in there—land costs for free, for example; municipalities rolling in land for free; lower interest rates; grant monies.

Human Resources committee  Thank you, through the chair, for the question, MP Aitchison. REITs exist in 42 countries around the world and that number is growing. They're in every G7 country. They allow small investors to buy big-ticket real estate on the same basis that wealthy people can. It's the retail investor who is the winner in all of this.

Human Resources committee  I absolutely agree with that. The private sector can build market housing. We can dip a little bit into the affordable or deeply affordable space if we can make the pro formas work, but we need everything below that on the income scale to be handled by government partners and not-for-profit partners.

Human Resources committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. My name is Michael Brooks and I'm the chief executive of REALPAC. I'm a career lawyer, having spent 30-plus years doing real estate transactions with a private firm and 26 years running REALPAC. REALPAC is a 53-year-old national trade association, representing institutional and public real estate companies from coast to coast in all asset classes and vehicle types, including pension funds, public and private corporations, trusts, commercial real estate funds and REITs.