Science and Research committee  I'll just comment briefly. You should think about occupational segregation as being hand in hand with the pay inequity we're seeing. It's not just about choosing different pathways. It's also about being channelled into different pathways. It's about how comfortable or how uncomfortable....

Science and Research committee  Doing undergraduate teaching, having really large classes, having to manage a number of TAs, doing counselling of undergraduate students about where they want to go and that type of academic mentorship, that is what we call academic housework. That is disproportionately placed on women faculty and junior faculty.

Science and Research committee  I think it's really important to use a different analogy than a pipeline, because “pipeline” gives you the sense that people are just dropping out because of gravity. In some cases, they're actively pushed out. In the cases of engineering and medicine, there are reports—we haven't done them here in Canada, but in the United States—that there is a high degree of gender-based harassment, including sexual harassment.

Science and Research committee  You raise some very important questions. I think it is through the research funds. There are other ways that universities receive federal funding support. In some cases, that's directly from different government departments like Employment and Social Development Canada or Women and Gender Equality.

Science and Research committee  Well, to a certain extent, it's not that we need a new act. We need to enforce the legislation that is already there. That could be done with a little bit more energy and enthusiasm on behalf of those who are not in a position of inequity. Showing by example is always another good way in terms of equity across the public service and how that can be applied in the university sector.

Science and Research committee  I'm so glad you asked that question, because I think a lot of people feel that if we just have some training, we'll fix this. Now, it depends on how training is integrated. If it's sort of a one-off, it doesn't have the impact. In some cases, it can have a negative impact because the people who have undertaken the EDI training say, “I'm done.

Science and Research committee  If you look at Ontario in terms of the salary sector transparency, this is something that could be adopted. I think the federal government can work in partnership with the provinces to figure out the promising practices and how we spread and scale those. There have been provinces that have really tried to implement it across universities, rather than have every university undertake a pay equity study.

Science and Research committee  I'm going to start with the last comment you made and go backwards from that. You say to create knowledge in all fields. Well, I've made a case that we are not creating a level playing field to create knowledge in all sectors. Women do ask questions differently. Black scholars ask questions differently.

Science and Research committee  This is a complex phenomenon, and there are a variety of different influences. What happens at universities has an impact. What happens in the tri-council also has an impact. Everybody has a role to play. Some of that will cost money, but a lot of the interventions, which I could speak to later, are more policy-oriented and do not cost money.

Science and Research committee  Thank you for asking that. Yes, the pandemic has had a differential impact on women in academia, on gender-diverse faculty and on faculty who identify as Black or indigenous. That's very important. There are robust studies showing that impact in terms of grants and in terms of the stress around teaching and the emotional labour, as I mentioned.

Science and Research committee  Thank you for the question. It's a very important one. If you look across the pipeline, doctoral fellows, post-doctoral fellows, new investigators who are women are less likely to get grants. It is required for you to get success at those early stages in order to get success later.

Science and Research committee  Thank you so much, Mr. Chair and members, for the invitation to speak on this issue of critical importance. My name, as you know, is Ivy Bourgeault. I'm speaking to you as the University of Ottawa research chair in gender, diversity and the professions. I have been in academia uninterrupted since 1985 as a student and since 1998 as a faculty member.