National Defence committee  Well, yes. It's not going to come out of a commercial industry.

National Defence committee  Munitions are controlled items. The munitions supply program exists in Canada. The rate at which we produce, whether it's training rounds or operational rounds, is a long-term contract with the Government of Canada. To change that rate or to modify that production line will require a change order from the Government of Canada and an acceptance, if we are to divert ammunition to another country at volume....

National Defence committee  Most certainly, I think it is up to industry to put proposals on the table as to how it can ramp up production, which, as I understand it, these companies have done. There have been proposals submitted to the Government of Canada to increase production that require anything from line changes to agreements on production volumes and backstopping it, because governments are our only customer with respect to munitions supply.

National Defence committee  We have received signals from other nations.

National Defence committee  Yes. We are not on a war footing. Our industry has not been put on a war footing, which you would do through firm, government-backed contracts.

National Defence committee  Generally, we consult with the government on the areas where it overlaps with industry. For example, within the procurement process there is a part that's called “industry consultations”. They would ask for our feedback: How do you feel the industry consultations happened? How can we improve it?

National Defence committee  No. It is the issue that, from the top on down, it was, “Make this procurement happen.” It was a demand and a contract that followed that procured the equipment you're talking about.

National Defence committee  If we want it to happen, it can happen. It will take time for the companies to ramp up to production volume, but if we want it to happen, we need to provide firm contracts for production ramp-up.

National Defence committee  I don't know exactly to what he was referring. He may have just meant.... I truly don't know which part of the process he was referring to with regard to internal controls of government, whether that is extra oversight or governance models.

National Defence committee  Again, if it's an internal control that potentially can be either combined or omitted, it would be nice to know which ones we're looking at and then determine whether eliminating that control would have ramifications elsewhere.

National Defence committee  I think it's a two-pronged approach. I mean, you do have to study where there is an overly complex process and eliminate additional steps, redundancies and other areas, but I think it is fair to say that one of the challenges is maintaining that workforce in order to absorb the volume of procurement that is coming down the pipe, one way or another, whether it's the current finishing of “Strong, Secure, Engaged” or a new and even greater defence policy update.

National Defence committee  I think we've been, in our behaviour...and to some extent from what I've seen reported in the newspapers, the Prime Minister has been very clear with our NATO allies that we have no intention of meeting the obligations we've signed up for. I believe that NATO allies have taken that in a very serious way.

National Defence committee  It's tough, because we obviously have different acquisition rules, and we have, I think, a narrative in our country of “fair, open competition at almost any cost”. That is not a mantra most other countries have. As I've said, most other countries start from a position of “We will preference our domestic industry first and foremost”, and then comes the conversation of “How do we involve our partners and allies or other nations if we're going to be providing this equipment to the rest of the world?”

National Defence committee  Well, there is no question that the policy isn't perfect, but I think the way in which we look at the defence industry.... We don't start from first principles to say, “We want to have a defence industry in this country and therefore we will protect it and we will manage it.” Given that we start from an almost diametrically opposed premise, which is, “Hey, maybe we don't need a defence industry in this country”, ITBs are an essential way in which we bring work to Canadian businesses all along the chain.

National Defence committee  I think what it says is that Canadians don't prioritize national security in the way other countries do. That is the single biggest conclusion I can draw from the state of defence—both procurement and the Canadian Armed Forces.