International Trade committee  There is no doubt that we could do better to protect Ukrainian workers.

International Trade committee  Our steel and aluminum are the greenest. When I say “our”, I mean Canada; I'm not just talking about steelworkers. What do I think that does for us? I think it helps us secure a future for our industry globally, but I think we can do more to promote it. I don't think there has been enough to promote it.

International Trade committee  I can definitely say that's a problem. Some of that comes through dumping—the illegal dumping from China. As I said, some of that is even coming from Ukraine. China is obviously the biggest problem we have. More support domestically for our steel industry is crucial, and that comes from both greening it but also from ensuring....

International Trade committee  Sure. Steelworkers are in all kinds of industries, from your cup of coffee at Starbucks to the steel in your car. We represent members in all kinds of industries. As I said at the beginning, with this trade, but certainly not exclusively, steel, potash and our workers in the energy sector would be particularly impacted.

International Trade committee  Hopefully. We're seeing more and more Canadian companies becoming less and less Canadian. Certainly, the expertise developed here in Canada—the fact that we have this expertise—is something we could gain some credit with on the world stage. Quickly, I have a note on potash as well.

International Trade committee  As I stated during my opening remarks, we would like to see the ISDS section removed, but with that change, we do support the agreement.

International Trade committee  Certainly right now there are some challenges with the trade. We have some concerns with some dumping of steel coming out of Ukraine right now, so anything that formalizes those agreements could certainly be helpful.

International Trade committee  Again, with ISDS, the ISDS allows for corporations to be able to overpower governments but gives governments no ability to do a counterclaim. For instance, if the government wants to invest in their own infrastructure or any of a number of other projects, with ISDS, there's the ability for corporations to go to a tribunal and go after claims that then can....

International Trade committee  Again, I think you could look at how that has worked. You know, trade has existed under the current agreement. The current agreement is there, and we haven't seen huge investments either way. It's not like we're undercutting the ability for trade. It's not like there hasn't been a ton there already, but I do think that the agreement overall encourages us to re-engage and have more trade with Ukraine, and there are lots of ways we can do that.

International Trade committee  We've seen the European Union and Europe in general clearly moving away from that. Canada has done it again. Even after signing the agreement, after signing CETA, Canada was able to remove it, and we've seen that in the CUSMA as well. Yes, I think the trend is going away from it, so why would we now in this new agreement be bringing it back in?

International Trade committee  There are certainly some inclusions around labour that provide some teeth for workers, but again, with very few firm requirements and without the ability for workers themselves to bring forward their concerns, it lacks the strength that it could otherwise have. As we were talking about with ISDS, corporations are able to bring forward their own complaints, but under this agreement, workers can bring forward complaints but only through the support of the state, so they have to have an agreement from the Ukrainian government that there is a problem rather than being allowed—the workers, organized labour—to bring those things forward themselves.

International Trade committee  That's correct.

International Trade committee  I'd like to see the ISDS removed from this agreement.

International Trade committee  There are plenty of examples around the world of making human rights and due diligence mandatory. When you see things like “voluntary” within these situations, or you see simple reporting rather than actual accountability and a process for workers or those who are hurt in whatever way possible through some kind of legal process to actually hold the corporations to account, in the absence of that, unfortunately it's just words and there is no actual accountability.

International Trade committee  The current laws aren't enough. In fact, on the international level we think that in Canada, for instance, in the recent law that came out of the Senate and was passed through the House, it should have been stronger. Again, rather than simply asking for reporting, it should actually require action and some level of accountability.