Fisheries committee  I was the Canadian expert who helped write the first draft of the port state measures agreement, and I was there through all of the negotiations on refining it. It did take us quite a while to get the treaty ratified in Canada. Notwithstanding that, we had implemented most of the measures in the port state measures treaty through our other treaties, like NAFO and ICCAT and other RFMOs before that.

Fisheries committee  This is particularly true for highly migratory stocks. If that's tuna, for example, we have the International Commission for the Conservation of Atlantic Tunas. I believe over 50 countries are party to that. If we don't collaborate on the management of those stocks wherever those fish swim, then we're not going to effectively manage those stocks.

Fisheries committee  Yes, I am. I have to go back over my lengthy career in conservation and protection to say yes to that. There are times when the situation is just so volatile that the action directed and given to officers is that at this point in time they observe and record, and we'll decide what we're going to do with that information later.

Fisheries committee  I think it's a combination. Sometimes it's a risk to the officers; sometimes it's the volatility of the situation and the potential for widespread civil disobedience. It does occur. In some cases enforcement action is taken later, and arrests are made.

Fisheries committee  Yes, I think so. I've always believed that education and stewardship are key elements of the conservation and protection program and that the C and P program needs to collaborate closely with harvesters on what the priorities are and on how to gain compliance in their area. At the same time, I think one of the things we need to be clear about is that in every fishery, we need a presence.

Fisheries committee  I would say that is a very difficult question. It is a very contentious situation. In many cases, I think, right now, DFO finds itself in a situation where it's trying to sort out what exactly the right is, and that's particularly true, I believe, in the moderate livelihood fishery in the Maritimes.

Fisheries committee  I'll speak about elvers in the general sense, in that to the best of my knowledge, given my experience, there's no elver fishery occurring anywhere else in eastern Canada. There have been, over the past 20 years, significant reductions in eel fishing in all provinces in eastern Canada.

Fisheries committee  I'll give you one or two examples. One is in the crab fishery. I'm aware, based on my history and on working with my colleagues in Quebec over the years, that illegal harvests occur in the crab fishery through the misreporting of catches. In other words, someone has a quota of, let's say, 50 tonnes of crab, but they're able to land 60 or 65 tonnes of crab by a different mechanism that allows them to escape the rules that are in place, land more catch and get more money.

Fisheries committee  I would agree with your first point that you can't have an enforcement officer up against 15 or 20 poachers, but you have to bring in the force to assess that. What I can tell you is that DFO has partnerships with the necessary agencies, including.... I won't tell tales out of school, shall I say, but that includes all of the federal agencies necessary to collect information.

Fisheries committee  I'm well familiar with that incident back in 1994, Mr. Hardie. What I can tell you is that we've made leaps and bounds and strides of progress, particularly on our east coast, within the NAFO regulatory area. We do not have unregulated vessels there. They're all from contracting parties to the Northwest Atlantic Fisheries Organization regional fisheries management organization.

Fisheries committee  Look, I'm not in DFO anymore, but I can tell you from past experience that unless there's a constant presence out there, with our patrol ships guarding our 200-mile limit and beyond, the ships there from all the other countries will be congregating on stocks they shouldn't be catching.

Fisheries committee  I'll give you a slight clarification. They won't be allowed to come inside our 200-mile limit. They will have to catch their 5% in division 3L, outside, where the cod stock is.... It's a straddling stock. It straddles both inside and outside. However, there is a real risk, as you pointed out, that, if it's not carefully controlled and monitored with regular inspections of vessels, the catches will be under-reported and the fishing efforts will far exceed what they should be by foreign vessels.

Fisheries committee  This is a situation that's been getting worse as time has gone on over the past few years. Before next spring occurs, if we're going to improve the situation, DFO needs a clear plan that is communicated to all parties. There need to be clear expectations of what is permitted and what is not permitted.

Fisheries committee  In the interests of time, all I'll say is that you need to do the exact same thing I just described in the elver fishery. You need to have a clear plan. People need to understand the rules and DFO needs to execute the plan and arrest those who don't comply. It's as simple as that.

Fisheries committee  I think the DMP is an essential link with the other tools in place in the fishery. For example, lobster harvesters are required to complete logbooks, and purchasers—whether they're buyers or processors—are required to complete purchase slips and report landings to provincial and/or federal officials.