Industry committee  Is the question whether they actually recused themselves?

Industry committee  Yes. I believe this was filed with the committee by SDTC in terms of response to the RCGT report. They did recuse themselves. They did leave the meetings. What happened is that the minutes didn't properly reflect that.

Industry committee  They did leave. That's what happened.

Industry committee  I asked and advised Ms. Verschuren to go to the Ethics Commissioner. I told Mr. Noseworthy there was a significant concern. My employee in the government relations lead told the minister's office. Yes, I expressed concern, and I did it at multiple levels. That's my duty, and that's what I did.

Industry committee  They are factually untrue. That's one of the reasons I wanted to come back here today: to be able to answer questions like yours.

Industry committee  I guess I would say, sir, that papering myself to protect myself is not a practice that I usually think is a priority. What I try to do is give fearless advice, and I hope it would be followed.

Industry committee  It was directors, sir, not employees.

Industry committee  I would have to look at the email. A fast track is a thing that is different from—

Industry committee  I cannot speak about Deputy Minister Kennedy, because he was not the deputy at the time of Annette's appointment. That happened after.

Industry committee  It was John Knubley.

Industry committee  Yes, I would have expected that public information.... Some research would have been done before candidates were spoken with.

Industry committee  It was Veena Bhullar.

Industry committee  I don't know whether she communicated it in writing. SDTC would have to bring forward any information if she did.

Industry committee  I can give you a specific example. There was a board member pre-2019. Mr. Lunn and I spoke to them about a potential conflict they had as a consultant with an organization. They stepped back from the organization and recused themself. Later, after Mr. Lunn was gone and Ms. Verschuren was appointed—it was about a year after she was appointed—that individual came back and said, “Well, given that direct conflicts are now allowed, I'm going to go on the board of this organization.”

Industry committee  That was Guy Ouimet.