Procedure and House Affairs committee  I just want to make one point on the suggestion that there be a space on the statutory declaration to have someone vouch for another. You could have that; I just wouldn't want it to be a prerequisite for that piece of identification being valid. If the lawyer makes some other reference, it's fine to include a space in the declaration or the form that allows the person who has taken the oath to provide the information they've gathered.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Tina might not quite understand the question. If I understood it, though, in taking a statutory declaration, there are certain legal obligations that commissioners for taking oaths have, and I think she's described them to some extent. Maybe she'd like to describe them again. You have to make some efforts to identify the person, and I think that's part of the requirement that any commissioner for taking oaths has to undertake.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I would just add, if I could, that I understand your goal to prevent fraud, but you have to look at the enforcement angle as well, which Jim refers to, that it's very serious, for example, to lie on a statutory declaration or to commit fraud. And there needs to be—

Procedure and House Affairs committee  If I may just finish, if there's a concern that the enforcement arm of the Chief Electoral Officer and the commissioner under the Elections Act are not doing their job, then I would suggest this committee should be looking at that as well. We've dealt with cases in which people are being prosecuted for eating their ballots as a sign of political protest, so there does seem to be some appetite for prosecution--no pun intended.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Let me just answer this. My proposal, anyway, is that the act be amended so that there's a paragraph (c) that says that a statutory declaration in the prescribed form would be an adequate piece of ID in and of itself. I think a statutory declaration, as one of two pieces of ID, is not going to solve this problem at all.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I think you need a multi-solution here. One would be a statutory declaration as a primary piece of identification. Another would be providing the authority for election officials within a polling station to take an oath, and indeed take the oath without vouching. But if you're going to insist on vouching, you're going to have to expand the vouching system considerably, as Mr.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I think that's absolutely right. The vouching restriction of one voter, one voucher is just going to cause a really serious problem. So I'd urge the committee to look at that, at expanding that as a solution as well.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  One other point. Remember, we all fill in our own address on a passport. As I read the legislation, the passport doesn't have the address actually written into it by the government, per se, so there's a real question mark about whether the passport would in actual fact be an adequate piece of ID.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Very quickly, the solutions are, number one, a statutory declaration. But more profoundly, as Tina Marie suggests, give the authority to deputy returning officers to take an oath, for someone to swear and take an oath that they are who they say they are and that they're eligible--without the vouching requirement, because the vouching requirement will kill this as an effective solution.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  The final note I'd like to close on is I've read the testimony from Jean-Pierre Kingsley. One has to ask the question, what exactly is the problem that you're trying to fix? According to Mr. Kingsley, there's actually no fraud that he is aware of, according to the testimony, or via complaints.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. My name is Murray Mollard. I am the executive director of the B.C. Civil Liberties Association. I would like to thank the committee for the invitation to speak. The association, as some of you may know, is over 43 years old and works on a large range of civil liberties issues, but the right to vote and political rights are at the heart, I would suggest, of the work we do.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Yes.