Canada-China Relations committee  Unfortunately, I don't have a ready list for you, though there are lists of other Hong Kong groups. For example, I have spoken about the importance of sanctioning Hong Kong officials. The list runs really long, but I would say the timing.... I would like to see.... It's a bit late for article 23, but it's still timely.

Canada-China Relations committee  I would suggest you use it. Thank you.

Canada-China Relations committee  Absolutely.

Canada-China Relations committee  I am not an expert of that particular institution, but from what you described, I would agree that we need enforcement power for legislation to act against forced labour, yes.

Canada-China Relations committee  I already spoke about the actions that should be taken at the UN, and the next Human Rights Council session is coming up in June. In addition to that, we have lots of recommendations from our report on Xinjiang, which I'm glad to share. For example, the Canadian government should encourage the preparation of criminal investigations into Chinese government officials responsible for crimes against humanity—preparing prosecution files, essentially.

Canada-China Relations committee  I would say, first of all, that Canada should not think that it's imposing values on other people. People around the world have demonstrated with their lives on the line that they love these values. The only people who are basically saying not to impose these values are generally the people who are the authoritarian governments, the leaders who say we must not do that.

Canada-China Relations committee  Thank you. I know that your to-do list is probably going to be very long. I could send you human rights research reports from decades before with a very long to-do list. We see democratic backsliding across the world at the same time as essentially a period of unprincipled international trade and economics—globalization, essentially.

Canada-China Relations committee  I think you need a strategy. I think you need people to staff it. You need funding for it. Otherwise, they're just empty words, so I'd like to see that kind of comprehensiveness from Canada.

Canada-China Relations committee  Even if the situation with human rights abuses ebbs and flows—sometimes it gets better and sometimes it gets really worse—given the Chinese government's political system, a Leninist system of top-down, centralized control, I'm not sure, fundamentally, whether any country can have a "normalized" relationship, a stabilized relationship with China without essentially falling into the Chinese government's trap of language.

Canada-China Relations committee  I think some of those recommendations are already taking place. For example, I think the German government has looked at how their economy is dependent on the Chinese government, basically. The Chinese government controls access to the country. I think there have been some efforts that seek to address that.

Canada-China Relations committee  Are you asking about the U.K.-China policy?

Canada-China Relations committee  I have to say that I don't think I have studied it in detail. In general, the U.K. approach to China, like that of many other governments, has not been totally consistent or satisfactory, especially with regard to its special obligations to Hong Kong. It has made statements condemning, for example, the imposition of the security legislation—the second one, article 23—but it has not imposed consequences.

Canada-China Relations committee  I'm sorry. We actually ask governments to do many things. I think there is a difficulty among many governments when they are at the same time dependent on the Chinese government for their critical supply chains. That has led to many of them being essentially unable to take concrete and serious actions on human rights.

Canada-China Relations committee  Okay. I do think there are other governments that would do less, unfortunately, so we duly recognize some of the efforts, however little they are at the beginning. We ask for them to be more. Basically, with the Chinese government, I don't think we are asking for a silver bullet.

Canada-China Relations committee  Thank you. I think I was definitely being polite with the forced labour ban quote.