Science and Research committee  I would agree with exactly what Sarah said. On the point of the research support fund, to ensure the capacity to be able to be responsive.... The research that we have seen shows that the.... Right now, within the CCI program, if you get a grant, you have to pay for your indirect costs.

Science and Research committee  I think Sarah talked about merit review and the success metrics, the indirect costs of research and the limitations that we have. The other one I would add is course release. The faculty at our colleges who are doing the research are also the ones who are doing the teaching, and the granting council programs right now do not allow supports within their programming for faculty course release.

Science and Research committee  That's a good question. I'll start by pointing out that Quebec colleges are really ahead of the curve when it comes to research. That's what I've learned over the past three months visiting our CEGEP campuses. I've seen how much more involved the CEGEPs are in this field. They're subsidized because the province is willing to make that investment, which is excellent.

Science and Research committee  We've recommended that the program be expanded so everyone gets the same funding. That's our position.

Science and Research committee  If I could add one other point to the IP question, because I think that's really key, it's that almost 100% of the partnerships led by Colleges and Institutes Canada in relation to applied research are with Canadian companies. In other words, the IP is staying in the Canadian economy.

Science and Research committee  Certainly, our applied research survey includes a look at research infrastructure, and I think you're exactly right. This is one of the really important dimensions of the locally embedded applied research hubs within communities. Our small and medium-sized enterprises—you cited what's going on at Durham College and it's a great example—are coming to use these facilities.

Science and Research committee  I think that would be excellent. Certainly, Sarah and I both hope to have some very important conversations with the Canada research coordinating committee across the research granting councils, the National Research Council and CFI. I think that is certainly some of the bold, ambitious thinking that we're hoping to help them think about, because I think there's a misunderstanding and a lack of awareness of the strength, the relevance, the impact and the reach of the college and polytechnic applied research system.

Science and Research committee  Maybe I could also answer and build on Sarah's answer, which is exactly the case. At Colleges and Institutes Canada, we host a survey of applied research every year. The data we have from 2021-22 does signal that close to 60% of the partners for applied research come from Canadian small and medium-sized enterprises, first of all.

Science and Research committee  Thanks very much, Richard, for the question. I actually put out a public op-ed about this at the time of the international student cap, and I thought that we should be having a national conversation about the chronic public underinvestment in our post-secondary institutions, for the reasons that you cited—labour market, workforce development, economic growth, and encouraging responsiveness to the social polarization that we're seeing.

Science and Research committee  I think it's an ecosystem issue. We just brought all of our institutions together for the national applied research symposium. I believe you were at that event. About 100 community colleges and polytechnics from across Canada were in attendance. That tells me that applied research, even in small institutions, is part of their mandate and mission, because they want to meet needs in their region and their community.

Science and Research committee  Thank you for the question. As I said in my opening remarks, our main observation is that, if 120 institutions share an investment program, but that program gets only 2.9% of the funding from the granting councils, that's not enough. As Ms. Watts-Rynard just said, the program that's earmarked for colleges is highly sought after, but there aren't enough resources to meet the needs.

Science and Research committee  Yes, I have.

Science and Research committee  Yes.

Science and Research committee  We've been thinking about this ourselves. I think, for us, the issue is, first of all, how do you look at it in the context of an ecosystem approach? How do we look at both existing programs? As Sarah and I have both noted, the college and polytechnic institutions, which have a lot to bring to bear, are not even eligible for some of the federal granting agency programs as they exist now.

Science and Research committee  I've been in this position at Colleges and Institutes Canada for the last three months. Certainly, in the context of my role there, that's the first open letter I've had to address. It was because of a major public policy challenge that our sector was facing as a result of the implementation of the federal cap in a very short time frame.