Environment committee  One of the important points in this realm is that banks can be a very constructive force. They are much less so in the context of inclusion or exclusion and much more so in the context of helping clients devise their transition plans and finance them once they have devised credible transition plans.

Environment committee  First of all, banks are doing a lot. Second of all, banks need to do a lot more. The third thing is that the Canadian banks signed on, largely, to the net-zero banking alliance, which was concentric with the Glasgow COP at the end of 2021. It was at that point, at the end of 2021, that they were making their commitments to align, so we are relatively early in that journey of dealing with clients and changing processes, systems and orientation.

Environment committee  It's transparency, information, proper data and deciding whether things fall within an acceptable framework. It all starts with transparency, measuring the data and communicating the data.

Environment committee  That is exactly what we're after.

Environment committee  I would say two things. One is that obviously it is going to have a very elongated process of evaluation, licensing and accreditation, and it should. Having said that, we should be introspective as to whether there is a way to do that in a faster manner, because the time frames are 10-plus years and that's hard.

Environment committee  There's no question that in a democracy you'll always have differences of opinion, and that's a good thing, and ebbs and flows in political leadership will occur. Stability can be useful, but democracy has its own aspects to it. The kind of stability that's essential is long-term planning around what expectations are going to be, around market functions and around rule bases.

Environment committee  —how you do it is up for debate, and a lot of people can have different opinions.

Environment committee  I think that is a very strong point, and we're already seeing it to a degree. We're seeing countries like China, ironically, much maligned for their coal use, dominating solar, wind, EVs, batteries, battery materials and electric transmission. We have an outsized opportunity in Canada, for a lot of reasons, to participate in some of the change and take advantage of it, and ultimately end up with a bigger slice of the pie than what we have right now economically around the world.

Environment committee  We certainly concurred with some of what you just mentioned. In order for Canada to continue to be in a legitimate position to produce and export its fossil fuel-based product, it will be essential over time that we strive to be among the very lowest in terms of emissions intensity and cost.

Environment committee  The comments that I would make have to do with, simply, a practical reality, which was even more true in 2019 than today. Roughly 80% of global energy needs currently come from fossil fuels. It's important that we have an orderly transition. On the expert panel, we're strong advocates of the notion of transitioning and meeting our Paris-aligned goals in a science-based way, but recognizing, in doing that, that there needs to be a glide path.

Environment committee  From my perspective, I think there are a number of things there. First of all, making sure that the disclosure regulations in play right now get nailed down will be very important. Number two is the taxonomy we talked about. Taxonomy is not a silver bullet, but it is part of the systems change that can be useful.

Environment committee  Yes.

Environment committee  First of all, if there is a transition plan on a country level, if there is a transition plan on a sectoral level or if there is a transition plan on a company level, they will involve actions that, to the extent that they align with Paris-based objectives and science-based targets, will need financing.

Environment committee  It's very clear that as a country, we're economically dependent on a well-functioning energy system.

Environment committee  I am not an expert in that particular field, but we are starting with a more carbon-intense series of processes than other parts of the world are. I understand we have made significant progress over time and should be commended for that progress. I also understand we have a long way to go.