Environment committee  Yes. Thank you very much. My analysis assumes that everything Mr. van Koeverden would say about climate change is true. It accepts the proposition that there is anthropomorphic climate change and that the situation is as has been widely suggested. I'm not suggesting anything to the contrary.

Environment committee  Both those things would displace other activities that would produce more carbon emissions.

Environment committee  Correct.

Environment committee  Of course. Sure. There are some companies that are publicly listed on stock exchanges, and people buy shares. For example, if you're a company subject to the Ontario Securities Commission, it has a whole list of requirements that these public companies have to meet in terms of the disclosure, the material risks and change and so on.

Environment committee  I don't recall the second one, but the first one is definitely so, yes.

Environment committee  I'm not a scientist, sir. I'm a lawyer.

Environment committee  I am not here to debate science—

Environment committee  —or the scientific— Hold on. Let me—

Environment committee  Okay, that's fair enough.

Environment committee  I do, yes. You're splitting the loyalties of the pension. You're trying to say that you want to provide returns to the people you're going to support in their old age, but you also want it to pay attention to something else. That, as often as not, is going to diminish the returns you produce for that first group of people.

Environment committee  I don't have those numbers at my fingertips, but let me say this: I am not here to argue against a company deciding to take on certain kinds of priorities, to get certification or to adopt guidelines. I'm not suggesting that at all. As long as they decide to do that in the interest of the company, that's great.

Environment committee  As I alluded to, Canadian energy is actually a tremendous source of solutions for reducing global carbon emissions. It's not the main source of the problem; it could be a great source of the solution. The fact is that we are knee-jerk about this and we think we shouldn't develop anything in this country.

Environment committee  Absolutely. What you get are split loyalties, as I alluded to earlier. The way investors are protected in our economy is that the directors and officers—as you allude to—owe a fiduciary duty to the corporation. What the courts have said is that this fiduciary duty means that they must try to maximize the profit of the company for the sake of the shareholders.

Environment committee  If instead the government mandates a split loyalty and makes those directors and officers serve another master, then the—

Environment committee  —fortunes of those investors will decline.