Finance committee  I'd just like to come back to what we said earlier about the Quebec model and small rental buildings. For urban planning people who are keeping abreast of this issue, here in Quebec we also have the famous “missing link” that we see in several research works. We have many of these small, low-density buildings located in urban areas, close to services.

Finance committee  Our view on this is that we need tax incentives, like the good old tax credit. As we've told you, it's difficult for people to renovate rental properties, given that they generate little net income, it costs more and you have to borrow more. Another advantage of encouraging the renovation of rental housing is that it would greatly improve energy efficiency, and we would greatly reduce greenhouse gas emissions from older buildings, particularly those built before 1980, because the standards were different then.

Finance committee  As far as I know, we unfortunately don't have this data. However, we can survey our members to verify the information.

Finance committee  We could probably provide you with partial data. However, the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, or CMHC, expanded their rental survey in 2019, and they asked about the types of landlords in the rental stock. I'll check with CMHC to see if we can get an average of units per landlord, for example.

Finance committee  We've certainly looked into it. It's still a bit arbitrary, but in our opinion, doubling that threshold to $500,000 would avoid a lot of these situations. Making a $250,000 gain on a building you bought 25 years ago isn't exceptional either. Again, if the measure is aimed at the ultra‑rich and not the middle class, one solution might be to increase the $250,000 threshold for multiplex owners.

Finance committee  All right. That's certainly a possibility. I haven't seen it in other countries, but by excluding the first transaction, again, we'd be targeting the small owner. Someone with 10 properties, at that point, would still be targeted, but they'd be considered a wealthy person.

Finance committee  That's a very good question. You're right, it penalizes people who own small rental buildings in Quebec. A very high percentage of them are middle class. Often, they live in the building and have tenants, whom they naturally have to manage. When the change in the capital gains inclusion rate was announced, there were stories in the media about people who were earning very little, $60,000 or $70,000 a year, but still managed to buy a multiplex.

Finance committee  It won't actually hurt new construction as much as it will hurt existing owners. As I explained, small rental buildings of two, three, four or five units are very common in Quebec. Many years ago, a lot of middle-class people bought these buildings. It was a way for them to be able to buy in centrally located areas, in urban centres, because they could earn additional income from the building.

Finance committee  Absolutely.

Finance committee  What we're seeing now is that for some of those little plexes, small rental buildings, because, as you said, you cannot increase rents as much as expenses have increased over the last few years, there's no profitability for those people. That causes a situation in which they want to sell.

Finance committee  Yes, absolutely.

Finance committee  Quebec has the largest private rental apartment stock in Canada. It has nearly a million buildings, almost as many as Ontario, British Columbia and Alberta combined. Like just about everywhere else in the country, we are experiencing an acute housing crisis, with a vacancy rate of 1.3%, practically an all-time low.