Finance committee  I would agree to that, and I think Mr. Savage set up a false dichotomy. I don't think there can be any backtracking on the research front, especially when we're talking technology transfer in the four primary areas in Canada that are regarded as particularly important. But I think with reference to the main mission of universities, which is to educate--mine has a dual-pronged one, to do research as well as educate broadly--lines are blurred.

Finance committee  I think it's very important for parliamentarians to realize that CFS, which is the largest voice across the country, actually would like to see the elimination of tuition fees altogether. My own view is that the individual benefits from a university education directly, and there's lots of evidence to bear on that, as does society.

Finance committee  Remember that institutions set their own tuition fees. In our province right now, tuition is at the 1999 level, at provincial request. The national statistics are not accurate. There are large differences across provinces. I'll give you an example. If we could charge the same tuition fee as does the University of Saskatchewan, we'd have $28 million more in our budget annually.

Finance committee  On the same issue, let me give you this example. The access programs are a way for adults to come to university. We apply the same criteria for admission as we would for any mature student—in our case it's people over the age of 21. The important thing is that it involves no change of standards and no stigmatization.

Finance committee  I'd like to go back to my longer brief, where I make reference to that issue. I'll read it to you: During the recent federal election, the Conservative platform contained a commitment to “remove postsecondary education funding from the Canada Social Transfer and create an independent Canada Education and Training Transfer to ensure that there is dedicated funding for postsecondary education and training.”

Finance committee  You'll have it.

Finance committee  I think certainly the provinces will kick in when they recognize that it's in their interest to kick in. I'm more concerned about the issue of performance measurement, for this reason: it's not a level playing field, and some of us may be stuck precisely because we've done so much work already--for example, in trying to repair our infrastructure.

Finance committee  I would prefer to answer in English. I wasn't able to find the interpretation channel, but if I can understand your question, you're asking what we would use that dedicated transfer for. Is that correct?

Finance committee  But that's the problem, Mr. St-Cyr. We don't know what component of the money that is currently transferred actually does go to post-secondary education. With a dedicated transfer, we would know. And we don't think that enough is going. Whether the problem is at the federal level or whether it's at the provincial level, there's no way we can tell.

Finance committee  If I may, I'd like to remind you that the federal government was directly involved. It may have been an experiment that the federal government pulled out of in the early 1990s when something called the access programs was established. This was a partnership, or it had begun as a partnership, whereby the federal and the provincial governments in Manitoba were supporting access for aboriginal students.

Finance committee  Thank you very much, Mr. Chair and members of Parliament. I am grateful for the opportunity to appear before you today. As Dr. Axworthy has indicated, my university is very pleased that you're paying attention to the post-secondary sector. We're here speaking collectively on issues we identify as quite important.