Citizenship and Immigration committee  To answer Madam Grewal's question directly, as a resident of the Fraser Valley, the very first thing I would do in this province is to make sure the conditions under which temporary foreign workers work in the agricultural sector are enforced before any more are brought in. You and I know enough tragedies that we don't even have to talk about that any more.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  The short answer is yes. I think, though, that it has to be broad. It can't be just directed toward graduate students and have high barriers and linguistic and educational barriers, or you'll get the same problems you have with the permanent class.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  As long as the “net economic benefit to Canada” rule works across these skill groups, yes.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Yes, from time to time.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I misunderstood. I'm sorry.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I would have all skill levels have an equal chance of getting in. So I would say it's unfair as it's set up. But I would do it with a proviso, which is one for one. If you let in one more person in this experience class, then you remove one person out of the permanent class.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Why? You have to have some sense of a balanced program here. You can't suddenly raise it from x. Let me just say that the country can only absorb so many people in the short run, in the economy.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  A considerably larger number than we have now.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  It depends on who is coming in and where they're going. I'll just say a considerably larger number--I'm a politician.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  For better or worse, I think the experience class, which I've promoted for the last 30 years, is one way of melding the two together. If you don't know precisely the exact number, like 386,441, you'll get some feeling from the labour market if you need more or less if you use the temporary workers program.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I'll get to the bottom line. Generally, I'm in favour of the experience class, but with some conditions. If you look to the current plans for the experience class, there are linguistic requirements. There are requirements about employment success, in the sense of being employed over a period of time.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Yes.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  That program doesn't have just unskilled workers; it also has graduate students and students. Generally, I'm very much in favour of it.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  You asked me whether I know of other countries, and then do I support. Yes, I know of other countries. You could look to Europe. Prior to the expansion of the EU, Polish workers were allowed into Germany under these conditions; that is, they had the right to convert their original visa to a secondary employment as long as it was in the same sector, the same general description.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I just wanted to answer his second point, his major point, about the possible relationship between a mismatch in the permanent immigrant program and the rise of undocumented workers. I think that's a very good insight. I think the market—because I am an economist—will attempt to correct it.