Status of Women committee  When the charter was first enacted in 1982 and in 1985, when the equality guarantees came into effect, it was the Minister of Justice at the time, Mr. Crosbie, who said that it is much better to get the laws right in the first place so that people don't have to litigate them; but if we have to litigate them, then it is imperative that the people who do not have the means to litigate these incredibly important cases will be given assistance.

Status of Women committee  May I begin?

Status of Women committee  The Native Women's Association of Canada has received funding from the court challenges program on more than one occasion to advocate on behalf of aboriginal women victims of violence. Indeed, research funding from the court challenges program was instrumental in getting the Sisters in Spirit program launched.

Status of Women committee  The act itself has been challenged by women as a denial of women's equality. It was challenged by Jeannette Corbiere-Lavell. It was challenged by Senator Sandra Lovelace Nicholas. It has been challenged by Sharon McIvor. It's challenged by a Mohawk family from Ontario called the Perrons.

Status of Women committee  I want to emphasize just how very cost-effective the court challenges program is. There are tight budgetary proceedings. You have to really tell them how you're going to spend every nickel. There is a relatively small amount of money given at each level. If you are successful in court and receive an award of costs, you have to pay them back.

Status of Women committee  If I may start with that question, as a lawyer with over 30 years of experience, I often find myself looking for ways of raising these questions, of bringing them forward, of trying to get justice for women and for my clients. It is fairly safe to say that we do not recommend that a major challenge under the Constitution of Canada or the Charte des droits et libertés de la personne du Québec be brought unless there is no other way, because if you can bring a human rights complaint, if you can bring a private law case against an individual, if you can achieve some law reform by lobbying government--if you can do any of those things, it is less difficult than bringing a major case.

Status of Women committee  Do we have five minutes left?

Status of Women committee  Thank you. I speak out of my experience as counsel for the Native Women's Association of Canada since the year 1991, and also as one of the founders of LEAF. But I will concentrate today on the litigation experience of the Native Women's Association that has been made possible by the court challenges program.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  Thank you very much.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  I don't think the previous interpretive clause was the result of consultation either, so you can't really rule out the possibility that consultation won't get you a stronger clause and something that has more of a consensus behind it. One of the other things that consultation will do is show the possibility of other solutions to some of the issues that come up, and that could be very desirable, to bring, for example, the wisdom of indigenous dispute resolution mechanisms to bear on some of these issues.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  We have just been through a process on matrimonial real property where, for the first time, INAC, the AFN, and NWAC sat down together to search for solutions. If you look at the ministerial representative's report, there wasn't 100% consensus, but there was a very, very broad consensus on a number of critical issues.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  In the law that has been developed by the Supreme Court of Canada on the issue of consultations, the court recognizes that there will be, in some cases, requirement of the consent of those who are consulted, so that you have a consultation process, and at the end of it, if the issue is serious enough and the rights at issue are strong enough, the only satisfactory result for the consultation is that the group consent.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  Yes. She's our expert on consultation. That's why I'm looking at her.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  Two years.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  Yes.