International Trade committee  Mr. Chairman, my response to the honourable member is that we don't share the same vision of the future alternatives. Clearly, the precedents that he talks about we don't see as having necessarily large value. I must repeat that for somebody who has lived through Lumber I to Lumber IV, yes, we've gone further in this case than ever before, but my understanding even of the CIT decision is that it's only binding on this particular issue.

International Trade committee  I think my answer would be that we are continually looking at the market levels; we are looking at what the shutdown position should be. We currently have a mill in Saskatchewan that is in fact down because the pulp mill is down. So the economics of the market, as I have said repeatedly here, are difficult, and we are expecting to see demand decline in the U.S.

International Trade committee  I think I would just support what Mr. Shepherd has said. I think our employees know the industry is going through very significant change. Competitiveness in Canada is an issue, and continuing to be competitive is an issue. This is just one element that adds to the confusion, the fact that we are said to be winning, yet we don't win, yet it never ends, the fact that they would like to be able to see an end to this part of the dispute, because frankly, it's not well understood where we are in that regard.

International Trade committee  Our position would be very close to that of Canfor's. Some of the elements described, such as the high Canadian dollar, have pushed up the Canadian cost floors to the point where the bottom of the market, as described in this agreement at $355.... We should remember that at $355 random-length composite, we do in fact have free trade.

International Trade committee  We don't want to start to argue here at the table with our own compatriots. My belief is that the market cap also goes away at over $355, and you are in fact in free trade under either option A or option B. But I am not the expert on that element of it. Someone would need to research it.

International Trade committee  Mr. Chairman, the honourable member is characterizing this as the end of the lumber dispute. We're very much of the view that this would be the start of the next lumber dispute and that we would be back in four years with rates that were put forward without evidence, that we would be back in four years in a market that will be much worse than we were in four years ago, and that in fact the alternative would be higher rates.

International Trade committee  Mr. Chairman, the honourable member has made a very strong statement. I would argue that the interest rates, the strong Canadian dollar, and the high oil rates are all going to contribute to what is going to be a weaker forest industry in Canada over the next period of time. Regardless of whether this deal is put in place or not, we will face a very tough competitive market going forward.

International Trade committee  Mr. Chairman, if I understood the question of the honourable member, I think it went along the lines that quotas are illegal and that the WTO somehow has ruled that quotas are illegal. I guess I'd answer in two parts. One, the softwood lumber agreement that we lived with for four years was a quota.

International Trade committee  Mr. Chairman, I'd just like to respond to the honourable member's point with a couple of views. One, we learned to live with the SLA and manage it as an industry. It was a complicated agreement too, put in place in order to meet U.S. demands. We've learned to deal with the vagaries of the legal decisions over the last four years that create opportunities with no duties and windows.

International Trade committee  It's certainly difficult. It's not a world we've lived in in the past, but if that's the world of the future, we'll figure out how to live with it.

International Trade committee  Certainly. Two things have happened, as we understand it, as this agreement has unfolded. It sounds as though the moneys for the meritorious initiatives will be spent over a period of time and put into a foundation, so that there will be continued activity in terms of spending that money, and that they will tend to focus on wood-using opportunities.

International Trade committee  I'm not sure. I hope I didn't contradict my colleague in any way. She made good points, so I'm not sure what that made mine. However, on the situation of the committees, the agreement does specify a number of structures, some of which are government only, some of which are industry to industry.

International Trade committee  I think it's been said that, yes, we do expect money. At the Toronto meeting, trade minister Emerson did indicate that it would be somewhere in the six- to eight-week range, and we have heard that the financing process is through EDC. So I think it is there. To the earlier part of the question, Mr.

International Trade committee  I would just add to that by saying that in my presentation, I referred to—and Bill Van Bergeyk has also talked about it—the fact that some of these working committees have not had their principles laid out. This is not the final answer. There is work to be done, and I think this committee should work with the government to in fact press for principles that will reinforce the desire to get to a functional North American market.

International Trade committee  I think I'd echo what Mr. Shepherd has said. We understand those risks that Bill has pointed out. They are real. The retrospectivity is in the running rules. Perhaps we're naive, but we think the working committees and the technical committees that are proposed can in fact work positively to overcome some of those.