Public Safety committee  First of all, I want to correct any misunderstanding. I think CSIS and the RCMP are doing a relatively good job in most cases and that they're needed, to some extent, within the bounds of law that created those entities. But what Mr. Holland has been reiterating is the oversight.

Public Safety committee  Mr. Vernon, if we prepare for every what-if scenario, we won't have much left and we'll have laws as high as a quarter horse. We don't design laws that way. We use logic and the rule of law. Madame Mendes, yes, CSIS and the RCMP worked well, as well as local police forces in the

Public Safety committee  I don't want to play the game of “what ifs”, as Mr. Vernon.... We can imagine a number of scenarios and will come up with a giant book of laws to prevent every possible scenario of “what ifs”, but let's look at the facts, as you've mentioned. For the Toronto 18, Mr. Khawaja, and

Public Safety committee  I'll agree with you that it's been used once. Yes, that's a fact, and the Supreme Court ruled on that case. I would not agree with you that it has not been abused.

Public Safety committee  I believe it's a matter of soft abuse. The goal is not to scoop up all sorts of people, although that is a risk we're concerned about. The real risk is the insidious nature that these powers may acquire. We've seen it. Our organization, the International Civil Liberties Monitorin

Public Safety committee  I'm talking about Bill C-36, sir.

Public Safety committee  It has been the law for ten years. Only two provisions have been sunsetted. Bill C-36 is a whack of legislation. I have a concerns about that. And Bill C-36 implemented inchoate offences, a whole lot of them. Facilitation, enabling, participation—these are offences that are far r

Public Safety committee  Thank you for your question. I agree with Ms. Des Rosiers. I don't like prognosticating forward or backward. But if I can use one example, you've been told by the minister and security agencies, such as the RCMP, that they need these new powers. They have a lot of powers, and

Public Safety committee  He said that “CSIS failed to include important information...”; that “The RCMP wasted resources...”; that “The concept of 'specific threat' was misunderstood...; that there was a “lack of cooperation” between the RCMP and CSIS. The RCMP failed, failed, and failed.

Public Safety committee  At the end of the day, that's the problem, not new cops.

Public Safety committee  I don't think it's an either/or situation. I think it is in a bundle of things the state has to do. If all the state has to do is protect your security, you could take away all rights, and we'd be pretty secure. But I don't think that's the society we live in. I think the real

Public Safety committee  That's a foundational thing. I don't want to walk into the “baby and the bathwater” thing, where we throw out the baby with the bathwater trying to keep us so secure. You can have a total security state where we give up all rights. We would be physically very secure, but I think

Public Safety committee  I don't know the details of it, but I'm generally familiar. I heard about it on the....

Public Safety committee  No.

Public Safety committee  I don't agree with that.