Public Safety committee  I think you're correct in your assessment. We're not saying CSIS and the RCMP aren't needed. They're needed to do certain things, as Ms. Cheung has pointed out. CSIS has to protect Canada from threats to Canada. Yes, that is their role. But CSIS actually arose from a wrongdoing

Public Safety committee  —some of it is quoted in Craig Forcese's paper—roundly thrashed them. They don't even understand what jihad is. They made mistakes between a Chechen rebel and al-Qaeda. They were making fundamental mistakes in cases in which all you need to do is read a newspaper or know a little

Public Safety committee  Thank you for your question. I agree with Ms. Des Rosiers. I don't like prognosticating forward or backward. But if I can use one example, you've been told by the minister and security agencies, such as the RCMP, that they need these new powers. They have a lot of powers, and

Public Safety committee  He said that “CSIS failed to include important information...”; that “The RCMP wasted resources...”; that “The concept of 'specific threat' was misunderstood...; that there was a “lack of cooperation” between the RCMP and CSIS. The RCMP failed, failed, and failed.

Public Safety committee  At the end of the day, that's the problem, not new cops.

Public Safety committee  I don't think it's an either/or situation. I think it is in a bundle of things the state has to do. If all the state has to do is protect your security, you could take away all rights, and we'd be pretty secure. But I don't think that's the society we live in. I think the real

Public Safety committee  That's a foundational thing. I don't want to walk into the “baby and the bathwater” thing, where we throw out the baby with the bathwater trying to keep us so secure. You can have a total security state where we give up all rights. We would be physically very secure, but I think

Public Safety committee  I don't know the details of it, but I'm generally familiar. I heard about it on the....

Public Safety committee  No.

Public Safety committee  I don't agree with that.

Public Safety committee  Yes, they will, if someone's in preparation of a criminal offence. If I'm in a conspiracy with someone to blow up Parliament, and the police have information on it, they don't have to wait for me to blow Parliament up. That is criminal law 101.

Public Safety committee  I'll agree with you that it's been used once. Yes, that's a fact, and the Supreme Court ruled on that case. I would not agree with you that it has not been abused.

Public Safety committee  I believe it's a matter of soft abuse. The goal is not to scoop up all sorts of people, although that is a risk we're concerned about. The real risk is the insidious nature that these powers may acquire. We've seen it. Our organization, the International Civil Liberties Monitorin

Public Safety committee  I'm talking about Bill C-36, sir.

Public Safety committee  It has been the law for ten years. Only two provisions have been sunsetted. Bill C-36 is a whack of legislation. I have a concerns about that. And Bill C-36 implemented inchoate offences, a whole lot of them. Facilitation, enabling, participation—these are offences that are far r