Public Accounts committee  I don't know. I'll try to find out for you. I think we know, but....

Public Accounts committee  Let me try it this way. We know exactly how much money is spent on lawyers in the Department of Justice. I think we know exactly how much money is spent on agents, and we know that because it's the Minister of Justice and the Department of Justice that retains every agent, even i

Public Accounts committee  We're now making a difference between lawyers and other expenses in the RPP.

Public Accounts committee  I think the issue I take most to heart from the Auditor General's report is she says we have many elements of high quality assurance now, but what we haven't had is a system to ensure the guarantee we're getting, the quality we need in every case. We have many, many elements of

Public Accounts committee  Forgive me, but I did not understand the second part of your question.

Public Accounts committee  The amount spent on outside legal agents has recently gone from $30 to $25 million annually. This means that out of $600 or $700 million, only $25 or $30 million are spent on outside agents. For the distribution through the various parts of the department, we can refer to the rep

Public Accounts committee  There are two hourly rates that we're talking about.

Public Accounts committee  I'm sorry I can't tell you the internal justice department rates, but I'd be pleased to send you the chart that shows the hourly rates for the different levels of justice department lawyers. On the outside agent side, we negotiate rates on behalf of the government with outside a

Public Accounts committee  Yes, it's approximately right. I can get the exact figure, but that's about right.

Public Accounts committee  Yes. We have an hourly rate, and it varies by the seniority of the lawyers involved. We arrived at this rate in conjunction with the Treasury Board, and it's adjusted annually—and we've adjusted the formula for this hourly rate recently. But we definitely have an hourly rate.

Public Accounts committee  My colleague is looking in the RPP now to see whether we can find that figure quickly. If we can't, I'll get it for you, sir.

Public Accounts committee  That's a really interesting question, and I'd like to answer it in parts. First of all, for every bill the Government of Canada tables, we must certify if it's not constitutionally sound. There isn't a bill that the government tables that has not been analyzed by Department of J

Public Accounts committee  I would just like to say that at the level Mr. McAuley was describing, the expression of interest and the establishment of the initial pool, which is between 300 and 350 lawyers, it's done by officials of the Department of Justice. We invited firms all across the country to expre

Public Accounts committee  I'm saying I think this is something we should be discussing with Treasury Board to ensure it is addressed.

Public Accounts committee  I think the Auditor General's report mentions that we've had a policy for some time that all professional staff must spend five days training. But what we have not had is a software program, some way of keeping track of whether that's taking place. Recently we've also had indivi