National Defence committee  We're not aware of any specific instances, as I mentioned before, of the Canadian Forces transferring a detainee to Afghan authorities and then hearing through either the ICRC or directly from the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission that these detainees have been mistreated by Afghan authorities.

National Defence committee  It's very clear in terms of what our forces' role is with respect to capturing insurgents or suspected insurgents: we are to pass these detainees on to the Afghan national security forces. It is very clear what their mandate is. It's as simple as that.

National Defence committee  Obviously the commander on the ground can show discretion. In the specific context you provided here, you could have the commander calling back to Ottawa or taking this issue up the chain of command and asking for direction. I should clarify that point. In this specific context in which we potentially capture somebody who we have reason to believe launched an attack specifically against Canadian Forces personnel, the commander would in all likelihood get back to Ottawa and ask for the next step to follow, because the issue you're laying out is a very delicate and very sensitive one.

National Defence committee  They've done the same. They're party to the convention against torture. They're party to the--

National Defence committee  I think the notion is that it's not legally binding because it is meant to reinforce the commitments we've already made to, for instance, the third convention.

National Defence committee  It's very important I think to get the procedures in writing. I think one of the main purposes of the arrangement is to make it absolutely clear between Canada and the Afghan government. It's also in the context of the International Committee of the Red Cross and the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission knowing their roles.

National Defence committee  I know we have to move on, but as a final point, the arrangements other NATO countries have struck with the Afghan authorities are not legally binding either--for instance, with respect to the Dutch.

National Defence committee  That's my understanding, and if it's done in the field, it's usually done with the commander who is at the location at that precise time.

National Defence committee  There are effectively two options. You can transfer a detainee in the field at the place of capture or you can take the detainee back to the detention facility at Kandahar.

National Defence committee  Perhaps I can just say, in the context of our detainee arrangement, that we in the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Forces are certainly not aware of any detainees we passed on to Afghan authorities who would then be released and come back onto the battlefield to inflict casualties or to wage operations against our forces.

National Defence committee  If we were aware, we would certainly take action. We would certainly raise that directly with the Afghan national security authorities and national security forces, and we would, as part of our residual responsibilities of the arrangement, get some answers.

National Defence committee  I can perhaps ask Colonel Herfst if he has the details on that answer, but my understanding is that these have been informal ad hoc visits that did not necessarily entail a formal request to Afghan authorities to make an appearance at the detention centres, so I don't believe there's a contradiction between me and the minister.

National Defence committee  Up to this point, Mr. Dosanjh, I think the experience has been excellent. There is nothing in the arrangement with Afghan authorities that prevents Canada and Canadian Forces members from asking Afghan authorities to follow up with detainees. Certainly we have had Canadian Forces personnel following up in detention centres with respect to detainees we've actually transferred.

National Defence committee  Up to this point, sir, visits to Afghan detention centres have been on an irregular basis. I cannot give you a specific number at this point as to how many times Canadian Forces personnel have visited detention facilities in Kandahar, for example, but there have been visits, and we are looking I think towards the future and perhaps having more regular visits to detention facilities.

National Defence committee  At this point, we believe the arrangement has worked extremely well. We're very comfortable with the way the arrangement has been drafted. We're very comfortable with the role of the International Committee of the Red Cross, with the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission, and with our access to prisons as required.